"The Matrix Revolutions" Talkback (Spoilers)

[The Guard]

There are rumors now that WB is not pleased with the box office performance of THE MATRIX REVOLUTIONS, and that the DVD may be out before Christmas, or perhaps as part of a Matrix Trilogy boxed set.

 

[HellCat]

Not playing the game is like not watching Final Flight of the Osiris.

When reloaded starts they explain it all again, but its not the same without the EXTRA explaination that the animatrix will give you. Same can be said about the game.

Good thing I got to see it on TV before I saw Reloaded then. Could of done without the whole "Looky what we can do with computers!" fanservice fight (but that's for another talkback)

 

[Jaguar]

Finally got a chance to see Revolutions. Let me tell you, after reading all the reviews I was expecting a huge crappy letdown. Well, I'll say one thing:

It was different. It started out great, then turned sappy, then got boring, then had a totally awesome "dude-look-at-all-these-effects" fight scene--the best fight scene I've ever seen--between Neo and Agent Smith.

Then we get to the ending, I'm all like OH MY GOD and I hear like six different four-letter-words repeating themselves over and over again to me in my head.

I leave the theater, half-impressed, half-dejected, expecting more but still being satisfied.

Six hours and 34 minutes later, I sit here, depressed with the ending running over and over again in my head.

Damn you Wachowski brothers.
Damn you for leaving the world on a cliffhanger.

Final Grade:B+

 

[Conekiller]

I heard the PC Matrix Online game will deal with the events follwoign REVOLUTIONS.

here's hoping


here's hoping it plays better than Enter the Matrix

 

[Beat]

Great. Another Everquest. Spend 10 hours pressing the attack button on virtual rats.

I'll stick with Planetside.

 

[Morpheus]

I thought that Planetside sucked...

 

[Jaguar]

I thought that Planetside sucked...

Eh, I thought it was pretty good. I just hope it can establish a community of gamers that aren't campers.

 

[Kolbar]

I finally got a chance to see it tonight.

Let me just say it plainly: THIS MOVIE STINKS!

It was just downright boring and stupid. I didn't find it exciting at all. I never really cared for the first two movies, but Matrix: Revolutions is by far the worst of the Matrix trilogy, in my opinion.

For most of the movie, I just tuned it out and thought about other things that I needed to dkay, I admit it. I don't understand the Matrix. It seems like a lot of people here do, but I don't and I'm sure that there are other people here who don't understand it, but are scared to admit it.

The only reason I came to see this movie was because I thought it would explain the other two and actually tell you what the heck was going on.

Some parts got really, really boring. The war part was really stupid, annoying, and boring. Some other parts were also slow and boring.

One of the worst movies I've seen in a while. If they make a fourth one, I will not see it.

Since 0 stars is not an option, I'm giving it something higher than it deserves, 1/2 stars.

 

[Dr.Zar]

You know, it's pretty damn funny when somone says they hated "The Matrix Revolutions" because it shows they know next to nothing about what was going on in it.

This Movie is NOT, and I repeat, NOT FOR "POPCORN" MOVIE FANS, IT'S A STORY FOR THE MATRIX FANS

It made perfect sesne, the fight scenes were incredible, and the way the film ended was not ridiculous it left things in the air, and that represents how perfect the franchise will continue to remain in the eyes of it's true fanbase.

But as for the Matrix Online, it better have a good plot, and not simply a game where you shoot, shoot, shoot.

 

[Morpheus]

Go check the Matrix Online website. MAJOR UPDATE, and since where I work will be selling this, I will be getting alot of promotional material.

 

[Fone Bone]

The Matrix Reloaded

Hi, I'm Matt. I'll be your resident contrarian this evening.

See, I LIKED it. Like, a LOT. Maybe not as much as the first film, but for entirely different reasons. Is it perfect? No. The mass dance orgy at the beginning was self-indulgent, and the product placement car chase was so long it grew tedious. Everything else I liked.

I imagine the biggest problem people had with it was the ending saying the prophecy was b.s.. People must have built it up into their minds that the franchise was an affirmation of religious belief and allegory, and when the movie says "Nope," that probably ruffled some feathers. Now they could potentially walk this back in the next movie. But considering people LOATHE the last movie, I'm gonna go out a limb and say they probably aren't going to and that's probably why people are pissed.

Speaking as someone who believes the Universe is not random and that there IS probably a higher purpose out there, Morpheus's various declarations of belief throughout the movie were entirely problematic, even for me. They were irrational and not based upon evidence. I understand why this spoke to a certain segment of the audience. For me, I thought Lock had a DAMN good point. I agree with the Councilor that this specific war's win or loss will not depend on losing three ships ahead of time. But there is no evidence that the prophecy is what it is being billed as. Considering their enemies' obsession with control and mind games, Morpheus and his followers would be crazy not to wonder if their beliefs weren't being used against them the entire time.

And the Oracle is an AI? I thought it was cool that Zion had a GOOD AI on its side, and I thought it said something cool about free will and the AI. But now I'm wondering. If the Oracle is the Mother of The Matrix, she must already know this crap, and deliberately lied to and misled the good guys. The Oracle is so warm and giving and understanding and empathetic. But given what the Architect tells Neo here, it's likelier than it isn't that she's a Black Hat and always was. I would love to be wrong because I love the character, and I love the concept of various AI's out there on the humans' side. But unlike Morpheus, I'm gonna save myself some grief and follow Occam's Razor there.

So basically the first movie dealt with the philosophy and metaphysics of belief. This movie deals with two other important topics regarding belief that I feel are a natural evolution from that.

The movie tackling the politics of belief is smart. Zion is a human society. And no human society everywhere agrees on everything. If every human left believed in The Prophecy, the Architect never would have had to create a second imperfect Matrix. It's human nature for a large segment of society to remain skeptical. On some issues that's a good thing, on some it can be a civilization's downfall. But the future posited by The Matrix Reloaded feels real to me because the humans are not all following Morpheus's line. And that makes Morpheus being wrong (so far) even more interesting. If and when they get back to Zion, and if they do before it's destroyed, Morpheus has some explaining to do and some crow to eat.

The second other important belief topic tackled is either the commitment of belief, or the fallibility and irrationality of belief. The next film will say for sure which it is.

The Architect spoke a David Lynch-style mystery riddle right off the bat, so I liked him. He told Neo his first question would seem the most pertinent but actually be the most irrelevant. And Neo can't stop himself from asking "Why am I here?" anyways. And after what the Architect tells him, I see his perspective that it's actually besides the point.

The biggest difference for me between this movie and the first is that in a LOT of ways, this movie is WAY more fun. The scenes with Neo fighting the army of Smiths on the rooftop wasn't tense or exciting exactly. It was bonkers and bananas. As was the fight with the French dude's forces. The stakes are a lot higher here because the human cast is much larger. But the movie is somehow more enjoyable.

I thought Persephone asking for a kiss was fun because she not only wanted to feel it, but I think she was partly doing it to cause spite for Neo with Trinity. She believed (and she might have been right) that in order for Neo to have all the pieces to fulfill his destiny, it's only fair if his personal relationships suffer for it. Now this movie didn't turn out like that. But it's interesting that was Persephone's demand, because I DO believe that's the reason she made it.

The other really interesting new character for me was the Keymaker. How is it this movie gets crapped on while having that specific character in it? I'll look around for reviews of the film after I post this one, but I will be shocked if critics really recognize what a great character he is and the reason why. They probably won't because it isn't quite made explicit. But as far as the protagonists go, he's the "Wild Card." One thing I could tell from his demeanor is that he struck me as a total coward. Even action he took was to try and avoid danger and seeming to save himself. What I like is that not only has Morpheus misread what was going on in the movie. So did I! He's not a coward. He knows he's about to die and is still helping the good guys even though he knows that will cause his death. And if he SEEMS frightened and cowed by that? So what?! That's actually a realistic real-world response to that! And unless The Keymaker has a ton of unsung Matrix fans (and I haven't seen any memes with him elsewhere) I'm guessing this film is underappreciated. It gave us that specific great scenario and people were STILL disappointed? Outrageous.

I am not going to get my hopes up TOO much for the conclusion however. Critics are not always right, but they tend to have a better batting average than the typical moviegoer.

What I am going to watch out for and beware of in the last despised film:

1. A downer, bleak ending. Totally possible. Also would explain why people were mad. I'm not gonna lie. That could potentially alienate me as well.

2. Stupid, unlikely plot turns and bad writing. This one concerns me because it's the only logical reason I would hate the next part, but it was written at the same time this was, so that seems very unlikely to me. And if I'm wrong about that, it would likely color my reaction negatively if and when I rewatch this film. I'm not crazy about that idea. At all.

3. A secular solution and moral. I would actually prefer this, but I'm betting it would piss almost every other Matrix fan off.

4. Budget constraints and cost-cutting measures. Perhaps the Wachowskis blew their wad and most of their budget on this film, and didn't have enough scratch left to do the final battle justice in the finale. This is a dark horse for what people may have hated about the last movie.

5. Unanswered questions or an unresolved ending. This would explain a lot too, but those aren't things I would personally penalize a project for.

So we'll see. Considering I thought the "disappointing" sequel was great, I'm having a hard time picturing getting from this neat film to the last being awful. So yeah. We'll see. ****1/2.




The Matrix Revolutions

I am struggling to find my place in a society in which Avatar is considered a great movie and this film is considered a bad one. It boggles the mind.

This review will be positive, and also far longer than most of my positive reviews. Mostly because since I liked the film, I have to make a strong case for it since most people didn't. The problem there is ignorance on my end. I very deliberately avoided reviews of this film beforehand, and I still haven't read them so as not to color my own with them. The low score on Rotten Tomatoes means nothing to me because I don't know what people's complaints were.

I can guess. I can have sneaking suspicious. But I may be cartoonishly off-base. There is a strong chance for anybody reading this review who hates it, and has commiserated with other Matrix fans for years over how much it supposedly sucks, have an entirely different reason for hating it than I could have ever guessed. I might be simply arguing against strawmen constructed by myself. That is a risk and I could look foolish. Not for defending the film. But for potentially being wrong about why most people hate it.

I mentioned in the review for the last film that a secular and practical ending would probably ruffle feathers. There is lip-service played to belief at the end by the Oracle, but it's merely lip service. Faith had little to do with Neo or the humans' victory. Neo describing choice is much more accurate, and while the first two films WERE about that, it is a much more scientifically rational moral than destiny and fate. My suspicion is that the film doing a 180 from the first film's religious overtones made a lot of people unhappy.

I also mentioned it's possible this film was badly written. To be blunt, it's not, but it is the first and only one of the three films in which bad writing is present. For two scenes, one minor, one major. The minor scene is the cringey "No, we did it." But this was the era of film and television that routinely did that, and didn't understand how much it sucks. I can make fun of that in hindsight. I suspect that caused few actual problems for people who hated the film at the time.

The second plothole actually annoys me because it shouldn't be occurring at all. Both Neo and Trinity should be cottoning on to the fact that Bane is Smith far sooner than they did. They are almost as dumb as Harry Potter is with Tom Riddle at the end of Chamber of Secrets. When Neo says "That's impossible!" I'm wondering, "Why? What specific thing about that is out of line from all the other craziness you've just witnessed and accepted?" But the real reason the scene should never, EVER have occurred is because the audience was made to know it was Smith in the last scene of the last film. At least as far as Tom Riddle is concerned, Rowling believed we were as dumb as Harry was in that moment. Most of us weren't, but it's actually acceptable for a narrative to do that crap on behalf of readers and viewers who AREN'T that swift. It's unacceptable to do that move when you've already shown the audience the truth. It's narrative malpractice, in fact. In fairness, this is the only scene like that I have been able to pin down in these three films. Which is what makes it especially significant and unacceptable.

Now the review is going to veer into speculation, about how and why this movie could have triggered negative reactions in fans of the first film. Before we go that far, I want to acknowledge a couple of things about my reviews and opinions. I have been known to change my mind about a film after seeing it a second or third time. Most often a changed opinion will occur for a film I liked but did not love. If the opinion is changed, it's almost always for the worse. Sometimes a little, sometimes a lot. I did not love this film, so it's definitely possible that if I saw it again I would see more wrong with it. The thing is even if I didn't love it, I DID REALLY like it. Whether it clashes with other fans or not, my unpopular opinion is probably baked in. I have similar controversial feelings of "like" for Wonder Woman 1984, but in this specific case I will probably be able to back my opinions up a little better. I like Wonder Woman 1984 because it made me feel good. That's the only reason. It wasn't a great film with a great villain. I simply enjoyed watching it. For this film I have solid cases to make for why I like it besides gut-checks.

While I am speculating on reasons people disliked the movie, the most obvious one to me is that most of it, particularly the action climax with the Sentinels, doesn't play remotely like a Matrix film. It's a classic sci-fi shoot-'em-up, and a pretty by-the-numbers one at that. The Matrix, especially the first film, blew people's minds because of its creativity and unique and boundary-breaking visuals. This film looks like every other sci-fi film. Let me offer you an unusual perspective. And this might be me punching strawman and not knowing it, but if you were expecting different from the premise you were kidding yourself the entire time.

Honestly? I expected the film to eschew the robot war entirely. For budgetary reasons. I am not disappointed we saw it. And of course it was going to be pedestrian compared to the previous actions sequences in the first two movies. Because the final battle between the humans and the robots HAD to occur OUTSIDE of the Matrix. No trick camera angles, gravity-defying flips, bullet-time, or slow-mo are acceptable in real-world battle situations. People going into this film had two choices of expectations: Either the film would stay true to the first two and totally Nerf and cop-out the robot war, or they'd pay it off and make the movie completely unlike the first two. They could not possibly have done both. It was literally one or the other. Speaking as someone who has consistently been denied what was promised from The X-Files, I am pretty damn satisfied we got it here. And yes, an actual alien invasion would entirely change the premise of The X-Files and turn it into an entirely different show. But I'm still aggravated that didn't happen as long as that was promised. I am not going to penalize this more "by the book" sci-fi outing for simply meeting expectations I didn't expect them to have the budget to meet at all to begin with.

I also suspect (possible strawmen, put up your dukes) that a lot of people might have been annoyed that a lot of the mystery of the premise and how things worked in the Matrix remained an actual mystery to the end. This is another thing I'm familiar with, not just as a fan of Twin Peaks. But as the only person who liked the series finale of Lost. Lost settled all the characters in a good and satisfying place, and answered almost nothing about what the hell was going on on the island. And the reason Lost didn't answer that, is the same reason I doubt The Matrix films did. A lot of people (and I mean probably the majority of Lost viewers) expected that since Lost was mystery show, it was gonna have an M Night Shyamalan twist ending that turned everything on its head and made you see everything differently when you rewatched the entire thing. Like that the island is Hell, or an alien experiment, or a virtual reality. I think the problem was people were watching the wrong show if they expected that. Just based on all of the random unrelated crap that happened on Lost during its six seasons, I knew going into that finale that there WOULD be no grand unifying theory explaining the island and the weirdness. It was tons of random unrelated weirdness happening in the same place for entirely different reasons. I figured that out by the end of season 2, and my opinion about that never wavered. And I was right. There couldn't be a grand unifying answer because no plausible one could exist with all of those disparate elements occurring in the same show. Technically, ONE unifying theory that could work is if the island took place in an autistic kid's snowglobe, but that's the only scenario it would work for. Would you WANT that? Of course not. And if that is so, it remained in the series' best interest to answer as few of those questions and mysteries as possible. I think learning Who Killed Laura Palmer makes Twin Peaks VERY interesting to watch a second and third time in hindsight. But it definitely hurt things for that franchise going forward. It damaged it so badly that Lynch had to wait 25 years to get back to it and finish it on his own terms. I would much prefer to not have my questions tied up in a bow, and for me to be allowed to continue to believe whatever wacky Lost theories in my head were right. That is a gift.

The Matrix still being open to interpretation is GOOD thing, that I doubt a ton of audience members will be properly grateful for. There are several answers a viewer could potentially put together themselves. Be an adult. Come up with your OWN explanation to what you just saw instead of having it spoon-fed to you. It's a wonderful thing that The Matrix franchise is allowed to still be bizarre and confusing in hindsight. I repeat: That is a gift. Enjoy it, people.

Everything you used to like about the first Matrix movie is still true. Because nothing's really been settled. I especially like that the fragile peace between the humans and robots going forward is an unresolved tension. The last scene did something dynamite when the Oracle asked the Architect about the people who wanted to escape the Matrix, and him telling her they were free to go. Her asking that stated a truth I voiced in a previous review. If I were in the Matrix and learned the truth, I'd want to remain in the Matrix. And that's probably true for most people. The Architect expressing surprise that the Oracle believes he'd be dishonest about that is probably because so few people actually decided to become unhooked, and it was no great for the loss going strictly by the numbers. That's my feeling, and why I felt that that specific bit of wrap-up was needed, wanted, and appreciated.

Trinity thanking Neo for giving her a second chance to say what she wanted to say was heartbreaking and beautiful at the same time. How anybody hate a movie with that tearjerker of a scene in it? I repeat: It boggles the mind!

So in conclusion, I might be wrong. There may be entirely different reasons you hate the movie than I guessed you did. The thing is, even if that's true, whatever those reasons and arguments are, are probably not going to be enough to dissuade me from liking the movie. It was solid and the correct way to end things. So there. ****.