Pokemon Thread

[CyberCubed]

Shipping was largely dropped after the XY anime. There were some teases in SM of Lana's sisters thinking Ash was her boyfriend, but it was played for laughs and not meant to be serious. Same for those small scenes of Lillie blushing over things Ash said, but Lillie just blushes from embarrassment in general so it's also not meant to be taken seriously.

Even when Misty returned for the last 10 eps, there really wasn't any real Pokeshipping besides some slight teasing in her first return ep in MPM2, even the whole departure of the original trio again in the final ep was done very casually without much emotion. Misty came and left so many times now that her splitting from Ash isn't a big deal anymore, nor was it back in SM or AG.

Some people also liked Dawn with Ash even though they were mostly written as close friends. And May and Drew did have romantic inclinations toward each other by the end of AG, but with May largely being phased out of the anime afterward and Drew only getting silent shots as well, it wasn't really followed up on. Kinda weird when you realize May and her rivals haven't interacted together since the year 2006 when AG ended, that really was nearly 20 years ago now...crazy.

 

[AlwaysInTheZone]

Journeys ended every shipping debate by confirming Ash and Goh would end up together in the future

 

[Light Lucario]

Shipping was largely dropped after the XY anime. There were some teases in SM of Lana's sisters thinking Ash was her boyfriend, but it was played for laughs and not meant to be serious. Same for those small scenes of Lillie blushing over things Ash said, but Lillie just blushes from embarrassment in general so it's also not meant to be taken seriously.

I'm not sure if anyone ever took Lillie blushing over things Ash said as potential signs of a crush, but I would see fans pairing Ash with each new female lead character up until either SM or Journeys. There might have been some fans pairing Ash with Lana, but I don't recall much for Lillie and even less for Mallow. I'd be surprised if there a noticeable number of fans pairing Ash and Chloe together given their limited interactions.

Even when Misty returned for the last 10 eps, there really wasn't any real Pokeshipping besides some slight teasing in her first return ep in MPM2, even the whole departure of the original trio again in the final ep was done very casually without much emotion. Misty came and left so many times now that her splitting from Ash isn't a big deal anymore, nor was it back in SM or AG.

They didn't have a lot of episodes for To Be a Pokemon Master to work with, but even if they did, I doubt that they would have devoted much to ship teases, mostly because they wanted to have the nostalgic appeal of the original trio back together again. Having ship teases wouldn't have been against that necessarily, but I don't think that would have been their primary objective.

It would be hard to make something like a character leaving the group to feel like a big deal every time. It isn't just because it's happened so many times. It's because the emotional impact just wouldn't be there for either the audience or the characters. Ash splitting from his first two friends that he made on his journey for the first time would hit harder than seeing them leave for the fifth time for example. Journeys Ash knows that he'll see Misty and Brock again because he has reunited with them multiple times by this point. Ash at the end of the original series wasn't as sure because he wasn't expecting them to split apart so suddenly. Having the characters go their separate ways be this emotional moment just because Ash was being replaced as the lead character wouldn't have really worked with the overall tone of the episode either.

Some people also liked Dawn with Ash even though they were mostly written as close friends. And May and Drew did have romantic inclinations toward each other by the end of AG, but with May largely being phased out of the anime afterward and Drew only getting silent shots as well, it wasn't really followed up on. Kinda weird when you realize May and her rivals haven't interacted together since the year 2006 when AG ended, that really was nearly 20 years ago now...crazy.

I've seen plenty of fans pairing Ash with both May and Dawn. They may not have been hugely popular pairings compared to his pairings with Misty and Serena, but it did feel like tradition for fans to pair Ash with each female lead. Given the tone and nature of the series, they couldn't really follow up on May and Drew's relationship even if they did appear. Romance isn't really a huge aspect of the anime, or the franchise for that matter, and since the characters are ten year old kids, they can't really do much with a romantic relationship either.

 

[CyberCubed]

So PokemonTV is about 14 eps into AG now:



Did anyone notice May got more screentime than Misty in the series? Even before the Contests got properly introduced, May is billed as a secondary protagonist and it seems like they divided the screentime up between Ash and the female companion this time around. It actually brings back memories of 23 years ago, when these eps were airing in 2003 for the first time and it felt like the writers were trying to give May a bigger role as a game protagonist than Misty.

It's too bad the comment section is turned off, I would have liked to see how people were reacting to the episodes. The "post" section of PokemonTV is open though with them occasionally making posts about episodes, but nothing about the AG era yet.

 

[Light Lucario]

So PokemonTV is about 14 eps into AG now:



Did anyone notice May got more screentime than Misty in the series? Even before the Contests got properly introduced, May is billed as a secondary protagonist and it seems like they divided the screentime up between Ash and the female companion this time around. It actually brings back memories of 23 years ago, when these eps were airing in 2003 for the first time and it felt like the writers were trying to give May a bigger role as a game protagonist than Misty.

I wouldn't say that May was billed as a secondary protagonist. She got more screentime than Misty got, but given that her goal was new and required her to ideally train/battle frequently in order to believably get Contest ribbons, they kind of needed to do that. Dawn was treated as a secondary protagonist in DP, to the point where I think that the narration in the Japanese version said something like this is the story of Ash and Dawn. That isn't to downplay May's role in AG. She still got more screentime and I think that the writers were generally more interested in diving the screentime among the cast in AG than they were in the original series too, but calling May a secondary protagonist is pushing it, especially this early on in AG.

It's too bad the comment section is turned off, I would have liked to see how people were reacting to the episodes. The "post" section of PokemonTV is open though with them occasionally making posts about episodes, but nothing about the AG era yet.

I still don't blame them for turning off the comments. While getting to see people's reactions to older episodes might be interesting, it wouldn't be worth the hassle of dealing with toxic fans or inappropriate comments.

 

[CyberCubed]

I wouldn't say that May was billed as a secondary protagonist. She got more screentime than Misty got, but given that her goal was new and required her to ideally train/battle frequently in order to believably get Contest ribbons, they kind of needed to do that. Dawn was treated as a secondary protagonist in DP, to the point where I think that the narration in the Japanese version said something like this is the story of Ash and Dawn. That isn't to downplay May's role in AG. She still got more screentime and I think that the writers were generally more interested in diving the screentime among the cast in AG than they were in the original series too, but calling May a secondary protagonist is pushing it, especially this early on in AG.

It still was for the most part, almost all the early eps of AG focus on May in some form. If you look through the AG episode list, roughly every 3-4 eps is another May focus ep, or May shares the spotlight with Ash, or May sometimes gets 2-3 eps in a row about her. Even by proxy most Max eps gave some focus to May as the big sister. Of course outside of Ash's big battle/Gym leader eps, the villain team eps, or some of the filler that doesn't focus on anyone in particular, it was usually a May episode. Even the first Team Aqua episode, the one with Mr Briney and Wingull, was a May focused ep because the bulk of it focuses on May alone with Briney when his Wingull got kidnapped before Ash and co. catch up later in the ep.

I've never done a complete count myself, but I'd wager to say out of the 191 AG eps, roughly 40% of them are May focused eps. The other 40% is Ash focused eps, and the remainder 20% are split between Brock, Max or Team Rocket focused eps, or some generic filler that doesn't really focus on anyone on the main cast in particular.

I still don't blame them for turning off the comments. While getting to see people's reactions to older episodes might be interesting, it wouldn't be worth the hassle of dealing with toxic fans or inappropriate comments.

I just wanted to see if any Misty fans would post anything about her being gone or replaced, so I can respond to them and educate them on the animes history.

 

[Light Lucario]

It still was for the most part, almost all the early eps of AG focus on May in some form. If you look through the AG episode list, roughly every 3-4 eps is another May focus ep, or May shares the spotlight with Ash, or May sometimes gets 2-3 eps in a row about her. Even by proxy most Max eps gave some focus to May as the big sister. Of course outside of Ash's big battle/Gym leader eps, the villain team eps, or some of the filler that doesn't focus on anyone in particular, it was usually a May episode. Even the first Team Aqua episode, the one with Mr Briney and Wingull, was a May focused ep because the bulk of it focuses on May alone with Briney when his Wingull got kidnapped before Ash and co. catch up later in the ep.

I've never done a complete count myself, but I'd wager to say out of the 191 AG eps, roughly 40% of them are May focused eps. The other 40% is Ash focused eps, and the remainder 20% are split between Brock, Max or Team Rocket focused eps, or some generic filler that doesn't really focus on anyone on the main cast in particular.

I'm not saying that May didn't get a good amount of focus. She kind of needed to in order to promote both new Pokemon and Contests. I just think that calling her a secondary protagonist is over selling her and the screentime she got in AG, especially when compared to both Dawn and how Contests were handled in DP as a whole.

I just wanted to see if any Misty fans would post anything about her being gone or replaced, so I can respond to them and educate them on the animes history.

That's still a pretty pathetic reason for wanting YouTube comments. Wanting to "educate" people really makes you come off as condescending and smug, as if you are an expert on the anime or its history. And of course, you want to target Misty fans because nearly all of your Pokemon posts have to bring up Misty and/or her fanbase at some point. I wouldn't be shocked if you try to respond to random people on Twitter, or whatever is left of it, whenever they bring up Misty for the same reasons.

 

[CyberCubed]

twitter still has a very active pokemon anime fandom, as does reddit on r/pokemonanime and some parts of tumblr, I have accounts on all of them. I don't really use them to discuss one particular thing, I've been on there since XY, SM and JN were airing so discussing what was happening during those times was what I did, but yes there's the occasional main girl discussions and some people are corrected.

Going back to Season 1, due to early installment weirdness, it's kind of funny how "weak" all the Kanto Gym leaders look now. Obviously part of it was the writers didn't really know how to write battles too well yet, but most of them would be taken out very easily by any later version of Ash, or the Horizons cast, etc.

Even ones that gave Ash a hard time in Kanto like Lt. Surge, Blaine or Sabrina, they all would have been childs play for Ash even as early as mid/late Johto or any later ones.

Also it's kind of jarring how weak Misty and Brock were at the start of the show. Even all the other Gym leader-type companions like Cilan, Clemont, Iris, Kiawe, etc. would have absolutely destroyed Season 1 Brock and Misty. A lot of it has to do with the "power creep" of the show as the pokemon, battles and trainers all got stronger...but man, Season 1 Misty/Brock would be weaker than Youngster Joey.

 

[Light Lucario]

twitter still has a very active pokemon anime fandom, as does reddit on r/pokemonanime and some parts of tumblr, I have accounts on all of them. I don't really use them to discuss one particular thing, I've been on there since XY, SM and JN were airing so discussing what was happening during those times was what I did, but yes there's the occasional main girl discussions and some people are corrected.

I'm sure that there are active communities on social media. My issue was more to do with the whole wanting to educate people. It just comes off as way too smug and condescending, as if you are an expert needing to teach people for daring to miss Misty or complain about her departure.

Going back to Season 1, due to early installment weirdness, it's kind of funny how "weak" all the Kanto Gym leaders look now. Obviously part of it was the writers didn't really know how to write battles too well yet, but most of them would be taken out very easily by any later version of Ash, or the Horizons cast, etc.

Even ones that gave Ash a hard time in Kanto like Lt. Surge, Blaine or Sabrina, they all would have been childs play for Ash even as early as mid/late Johto or any later ones.

Also it's kind of jarring how weak Misty and Brock were at the start of the show. Even all the other Gym leader-type companions like Cilan, Clemont, Iris, Kiawe, etc. would have absolutely destroyed Season 1 Brock and Misty. A lot of it has to do with the "power creep" of the show as the pokemon, battles and trainers all got stronger...but man, Season 1 Misty/Brock would be weaker than Youngster Joey.

Part of that would be due to early installment weirdness, but also due to how battling changed from the first generation. The movepools in the first generation weren't really great. There weren't nearly as many options or strategies for Water and Rock type Pokemon either. Later games had more diverse movepools for Pokemon and more type combinations too. It also helps that other Gym Leader companions, aside from I guess the SM classmates, weren't limited to a single type like Misty and Brock were initially. They had more than one Pokemon that wasn't just a particularly type, so that gave them more for the writers to work with too.

I disagree that Cilan would have destroyed season one Brock and Misty. I don't think he was weak, but aside from his Gym battle with Ash, he never came off as being particularly strong. His team was certainly lackluster. While Misty and Brock's season one teams weren't strong either, I don't think I could picture Cilan easily crushing them at least. I disagree about Iris as well, mainly because her strength never seemed believable to me in either BW or Journeys. She probably would defeat season one Misty and Brock, but more so because the show was trying hard to sell the idea that she was this special gifted dragon master in training instead of showing it.

 

[CyberCubed]

I mean watching the Don battle tournaments it's pretty obvious Cilan and Iris have a lot of battle skill. There's also a lot of early/middle BW eps where Cilan has tag team battles with Ash in random fillers. I had honestly forgotten how much Cilan battled till I rewatched the series a few years ago. As for Iris, Excadrill alone is more powerful than anything Misty had in Season 1.

I think people forget how weak Misty's team was back then, half her Pokemon couldn't even battle properly (Psyduck, Togepi, Horsea or Goldeen outside of water), and her Starmie seemed weaker than Staryu for some reason. Then the writers abandon Starmie and Horsea at her Gym only 60 eps into Kanto and they're never used again. Goldeen somehow remained mostly useless for all 250+ eps later besides like 1-2 episodes. Staryu was just a decent battler at best but since she couldn't evolve it, it couldn't really do much besides water gun or swift.

Misty didn't really get any decent battle-style pokemon till she got Poliwhirl in Johto, and then later Corsola. That's why Poliwhirl/toed was considered her strongest battler for awhile, it was the first one of her pokemon developed properly. The rest of her pokemon were all meh or hardly did anything.

 

[Light Lucario]

I mean watching the Don battle tournaments it's pretty obvious Cilan and Iris have a lot of battle skill. There's also a lot of early/middle BW eps where Cilan has tag team battles with Ash in random fillers. I had honestly forgotten how much Cilan battled till I rewatched the series a few years ago. As for Iris, Excadrill alone is more powerful than anything Misty had in Season 1.

I'm not saying that Cilan didn't have battle skills. I just don't think he came off as particularly strong. It isn't something that would stand out about him, especially when he only one one fully evolved Pokemon on his team. It would stand out more with characters like Clemont or Kiawe whose storylines did involve battling and in Clemont's case, becoming a more confident person. Cilan's story didn't really have anything like that. As much as I complain about how Iris's storyline was handled, Cilan was arguably worse, if only because it was clear that the writers didn't have any idea what kind of story to give him by a certain point.

Most of the Don battle tournaments weren't that good from what I remember too. They had some of Iris' most unbelievable and undeserved victories in the series, such as Axew using Outrage out of nowhere only to never use it again until Journeys. Yeah, Excadrill is strong and I didn't say that she would lose to season one Misty or Brock. Iris' strength as a trainer just never felt believable to me, so saying that she would defeat other traveling companions doesn't really mean much to me. Most of her victories in BW weren't earned because of her skills or the result of her training. She won because the writers wanted to make her look super gifted or handed her victories on a silver plate.

I think people forget how weak Misty's team was back then, half her Pokemon couldn't even battle properly (Psyduck, Togepi, Horsea or Goldeen outside of water), and her Starmie seemed weaker than Staryu for some reason. Then the writers abandon Starmie and Horsea at her Gym only 60 eps into Kanto and they're never used again. Goldeen somehow remained mostly useless for all 250+ eps later besides like 1-2 episodes. Staryu was just a decent battler at best but since she couldn't evolve it, it couldn't really do much besides water gun or swift.

Misty didn't really get any decent battle-style pokemon till she got Poliwhirl in Johto, and then later Corsola. That's why Poliwhirl/toed was considered her strongest battler for awhile, it was the first one of her pokemon developed properly. The rest of her pokemon were all meh or hardly did anything.

I didn't forget that Misty's team wasn't that good in season one. She was the first female lead to have a full team, but most of them were weak or blended into the background. Goldeen was around from the start, but I think it only won one battle. Her Johto team was more solid with a couple of more battle active Pokemon that had a bit more personality, if not just more screentime. Even with that in mind, I wouldn't say that Cilan would significantly crush the season one Misty and Brock. Iris has a stronger team, but none of her accomplishments and victories in BW felt earned to me, so saying that she'd defeat any traveling companion wouldn't mean much to me.

It just seems like a weird way to compare traveling companions when later series would have more types, moves and obviously Pokemon for characters to have than both Misty and Brock did in the original series. One hundred and fifty one Pokemon is a lot, but even by the fifth generation, there were over six hundred and battles had advanced a lot in both the games and the anime. And now there's over a thousand Pokemon. Trying to hype up later travel companions by saying that Misty and Brock were so weak just feels like a moot point, if not another attempt to talk about Misty somehow. Even by season one standards, I don't think Misty came off as a particularly strong trainer. She always talked the talked, but didn't really walk the walk, so comparing her with later characters feels unnecessary to make that point anyway.

 

[PF9]

Not really. There were a lot of events during Pokemon's 20th anniversary, such as event code distributions, a bunch of merchandise like plush toys and cards and the release of a then new generation of main series games with Sun/Moon. This was also the first year that they started to use Pokemon Day, something that has continued with every year since the 20th anniversary celebration.

From what I remember and what I've looked up online, there's really no indication that the Kalos League finale had any kind of impact on any of the franchise's 20th anniversary celebrations. There were fans online posting images of throwing away some Pokemon merchandise as their initial response to Ash's defeat, but that always felt like such overblown reactions to me. More importantly, I don't see any indication that those or any kind of reactions to the Kalos League impacted any of the 20th anniversary celebrations.

Pokemon isn't the only show with an episode so unpopular that it is better off taken out of circulation. Many shows have this problem. Like The Loud House with No Such Luck.

 

[Light Lucario]

Pokemon isn't the only show with an episode so unpopular that it is better off taken out of circulation. Many shows have this problem. Like The Loud House with No Such Luck.

That's beside the point. I know that Ash losing the Kalos League was unpopular. I was there when the magic was written as the meme goes. I remember people complaining about it for at least a couple of weeks after it happened. Being unpopular isn't enough to warrant removing an episode. Otherwise, they would have removed other episodes like Ash losing the Sinnoh and Unova Leagues. Some would argue all of BW is pretty unpopular too. Removing Ash losing to Alain wouldn't magically improve XY. There would just be a missing episode that naturally leads into the real climax of the series, so it would cause more confusion.

I also don't think that so many people are still upset about the Kalos League. That happened nearly ten years ago at this point. Multiple series have come and gone since then. Ash had two victories in a row. How well they were written is a different topic, but he still won the Alola League and became the number one ranked trainer in the world. Removing the episode wouldn't change the fact that it happened. Despite the Kalos League finale, XY was still quite popular among fans when all was said and done. It's probably at least one of the most popular Pokemon series around. So the Kalos League didn't have any long lasting impact on XY's popularity or on the 20th anniversary celebrations, so there is no real need or incentive for them to remove the episode. It is not better off taken out of circulation.

 

[J'onn J'onzz]

Is It just me or is the Sinnoh loss not that bad? It’s like a Jackie Chun loss in dragon ball. To show kids there are legends you can’t beat in every scenario. I know it’s weird a guy came out of nowhere with strong monsters and creamed Ash but considering what he was up against Ash fought well. Anyone invested in his story already saw his heroism by Ash vs Paul and focusing on the actual victory is a bit missing the point of Pokemon. That’s something Paul would think at his worst; that winning was all that mattered.

 

[Light Lucario]

Is It just me or is the Sinnoh loss not that bad? It’s like a Jackie Chun loss in dragon ball. To show kids there are legends you can’t beat in every scenario. I know it’s weird a guy came out of nowhere with strong monsters and creamed Ash but considering what he was up against Ash fought well. Anyone invested in his story already saw his heroism by Ash vs Paul and focusing on the actual victory is a bit missing the point of Pokemon. That’s something Paul would think at his worst; that winning was all that mattered.

Honestly, I never had a problem with the Sinnoh League loss either. Ash vs. Paul is still the best full battle in the anime's history in my book. It was engaging, paced well and was an extremely satisfying payoff to one of the major storylines in DP. The Tobias battle was still pretty good and showed how far Ash had come. He was the only one able to defeat his Darkrai, which effectively made him the honorary runner up of the Sinnoh League. If he couldn't win the Sinnoh League for whatever reason, he at least went down in a blaze of glory that still showed off his skills pretty well.

I brought it up because people still complain about it too, to the point where people legit wanted him to beat Tobias after winning the Master Class tournament as if that was some important wrong that needed to be corrected. It was also the start of the more controversial League defeats, especially when Ash vs. Paul seemed tailored made for the Sinnoh League finals after having such huge buildup. I agree that people focusing on the victory is missing the point of the Pokemon anime. The anime always emphasized that it was the journey, not the destination, that was really important. Despite the iconic dub song, the anime wasn't just about Ash becoming the best like no one ever was. It was about him traveling with his friends and meeting new Pokemon. That's a big reason why Ash losing never really bothered me. Aside from BW, it never felt like he regressed that much at the start of each series and he wasn't even that bad in BW in spite of some infamously bad battles. Even with the Kalos League, I was more annoyed at Alain winning yet again more so than Ash losing. I remember people disliking that Ash would lose a League and then start over, but I thought that was fine. It never felt like the journey was a complete waste and just seeing him explore new regions with his Pokemon and friends was fun.

If the writers wanted to course correct by giving Ash major victories after the Kalos League backlash, I feel like they over corrected, to the point of missing some key aspects of what makes the anime appealing. Ash being pretty overpowered in Journeys was much less satisfying than him being the struggling underdog for example, not helped with how little training and development his Journeys team had despite winning the Master Class tournament. They could have given Ash some more victories every now and then instead of treating like winning a League meant that he couldn't be starting off fresh again in a new region.

 

[Yojimbo]

The Postal Service Dragonite short has been posted in English.

 

[SpecialColorfull]

That was just so CUTE! I LOVED it!

 

[Yojimbo]

5/19: The NHK Symphony Orchestra recorded the main theme song for the upcoming Pokémon Winds and Pokémon Waves games.


6/21: The Pokemon-Aardman stop motion TV series "Pokemon Tales: The Misadventures of Sirfetch'd & Pichu has a first look at Annecy. It premieres in 2027.

 

[CyberCubed]

PokemonTV is now at the tail-end of uploading Battle Frontier eps on youtube, they should be doing DP soon after. Really surprised how fast they're uploading them and for free, and haven't taken old eps down. It kinda blows my mind these eps are 20 years old now, I remember when they were new and airing back in 2006. It both simultaneously doesn't feel that long ago but then you realize its literally half of our lives ago.

In fact this September will be the 20th anniversary of the DP anime since it started in 2006. Crazy to think Dawn was introduced 20 years ago now. I remember when she was still considered the "new" pokemon girl, or "the second Misty replacement" as some people used to say on bulbagarden back in the day. LOL, people were still delusional enough back then to think of characters as "replacements" even thought Misty was long gone by then.

 

[Checkerboard]

Im happy with Pokemon TV as well. Especially the multilanguage.