MGM Cartoons version differences discussion

[Cool_Cat]

A few Tex Avery shorts seem to have been remastered on low quality material.

Cock-a-Doodle Dog obviously has the intro/ending sequences from an higher quality source, Doggone Tired has the Lion replaced (and looks awful) while Rock-a-Bye Bear has the 60s Lion and looks just as bad as you would expect.

 

[Daffyrocks]

A few Tex Avery shorts seem to have been remastered on low quality material.

Cock-a-Doodle Dog obviously has the intro/ending sequences from an higher quality source, Doggone Tired has the Lion replaced (and looks awful) while Rock-a-Bye Bear has the 60s Lion and looks just as bad as you would expect.

These are all on Laserdisc?

 

[Cool_Cat]

@Daffyrocks I meant the Turner versions.

By the way, here's the part you're all interested. Back when I visited the RAI archives I barely had the time to check all the 90s Looney Tunes airings which were recently made viewable (I'll put the details in the other topic), but I was still able to check some MGM shorts.

The oldest airing was Senor Droopy aired in 1973 in black and white. Then I saw Red Hot Riding Hood (not dubbed) which was an horribly red faded print (I couldn't check the MGM title card because they started the short after the titles).

I also saw King Size Canary and Slap Happy Lion, both dubbed and looked acceptable. Then I saw The Missing Mouse and it looked pretty good, and then Little Runaway which had an MGM lion card with the Technicolor line blanked out spliced in at the beginning and looked terrible, very similar to the French version found on cartoons.orni.to.

Now that I've got rid of hundreds of Looney Tunes shorts to check, next time I'll check what's left. These are the Tom and Jerry shorts I still have to see from old airings:

Puss N Toots
Mouse Trouble
Tee for Two
Flirty Birdy
Part Time Pal
Heavenly Puss (5 bucks it looks better than the restored version)
Little Quacker
Texas Tom
Cue Ball Cat
Cat Napping
Smitten Kitten (old print)
Triplet Trouble
Busy Buddies (not found, no idea what's the title)
Timid Tabby
Mucho Mouse
Tom's Photo Finish
Royal Cat Nap
Robin Hoodwinked
Tot Watchers (video not available yet, it was aired)
Dicky Moe
Tall in the Trap
Of Feline Bondage
O Solar Meow
The Mouse from Hunger (old version)

 

[NoWhereMan1996]

New here, decided to check this thread out for my first. This is so interesting to learn about, all these different variations of the same shorts with major or sometimes subtle changes/edits.

 

[Einhänder]

Credits goes to @cartoon98100 from Youtube:

So it seems that the theory of "Trap Happy" being the first T&J with the Fred Quimby credit is false. Wonder if the original titles for "Springtime For Thomas" also have that credit.

 

[Einhänder]

I somehow found a picture of a production cell from the credits of what I believe is a Tom And Jerry cartoon (more specifically," The Yankee Doodle Mouse").

 

[Daffyrocks]

The credits are indeed the same ones as in "Yankee Doodle Mouse", but who knows, there may be other shorts with the same names on the credits.

 

[Einhänder]

View attachment 140072

The credits are indeed the same ones as in "Yankee Doodle Mouse", but who knows, there may be other shorts with the same names on the credits.

Well, the front used in the Animation and Music credits is exactly the same as the ones used in "War Dogs", but that short lists Pete Burness, Kenneth Muse, Irven Spence, and Jack Zander as animators, in that order. I believe that cell has the original credits for "The Yankee Doodle Mouse", which was in the original print, and that is now considered lost.

 

[Daffyrocks]

Well, the front used in the Animation and Music credits is exactly the same as the ones used in "War Dogs", but that short lists Pete Burness, Kenneth Muse, Irven Spence, and Jack Zander as animators, in that order. I believe that cell has the original credits for "The Yankee Doodle Mouse", which was in the original print, and that is now considered lost.

Maybe, but we still can't know for sure until we have more proof

 

[EmitterCollector]

Has anyone seen these prints anywhere??

MGM Cartoon card with blacked out "Color by Technicolor" from "The Bodyguard", recorded from a ~1980s tape (voice-over dubbed by Irina Margareta Nistor back in the day).

This one comes from "The Little Orphan" from the same tape, also dubbed. I've searched up and down and I don't think I've ever seen "Little Orphan" with this 1960s title card. Any ideas?

Again, blacked out "Color by Tehnicolor", this time from "The Flying Cat" coming from the same tape, and it's the first cartoon in order.

There's also "Jerry's Cousin" on the tape although it cuts out near the middle the episode ,and that one plays as normal (no blacked out COLOR BY TECHNICOLOR line)

Does anyone know where do these prints come from?

 

[Cool_Cat]

@EmitterCollector Those come from the Cartoon Festival Vol. 1 tape, later retitled Featuring The Flying Cat or something.

Along with the second volume they used 16mms for the transfers.

 

[EmitterCollector]

@EmitterCollector Those come from the Cartoon Festival Vol. 1 tape, later retitled Featuring The Flying Cat or something.

Along with the second volume they used 16mms for the transfers.

So all Cartoon Festival prints are in such rough quality? (without adding the generations this must've went through.)

 

[Daffyrocks]

Has anyone seen these prints anywhere??

View attachment 141391

MGM Cartoon card with blacked out "Color by Technicolor" from "The Bodyguard", recorded from a ~1980s tape (voice-over dubbed by Irina Margareta Nistor back in the day).

View attachment 141401

This one comes from "The Little Orphan" from the same tape, also dubbed. I've searched up and down and I don't think I've ever seen "Little Orphan" with this 1960s title card. Any ideas?

View attachment 141411

Again, blacked out "Color by Tehnicolor", this time from "The Flying Cat" coming from the same tape, and it's the first cartoon in order.

There's also "Jerry's Cousin" on the tape although it cuts out near the middle the episode ,and that one plays as normal (no blacked out COLOR BY TECHNICOLOR line)

Does anyone know where do these prints come from?

They blacked out the "Technicolor" byline because the prints they used were Eastman color ones, which were mostly red-faded in tint. And of course people would get confused very easily if they never saw Tom and Jerry on TV before, and see such a "horrible looking cartoon" done in Technicolor. Probably "Jerry's Cousin" was the only one sourced from a real Technicolor master.

The Public Domain print of "Jerky Turkey" also has the blakced-out byline, since it was also sourced from an Eastman print. I also saw before on Youtube a print of the Barney Bear short "Wild Honey" with the blacked out byline, but it was taken down along with the original uploader's account itself (who was "CartoonPressureCooker", if somebody remembers him).

Also, "Irina Margareta Nistor"? Is that a Romanian name, I suppose?

 

[EmitterCollector]

They blacked out the "Technicolor" byline because the prints they used were Eastman color ones, which were mostly red-faded in tint. And of course people would get confused very easily if they never saw Tom and Jerry on TV before, and see such a "horrible looking cartoon" done in Technicolor. Probably "Jerry's Cousin" was the only one sourced from a real Technicolor master.

The Public Domain print of "Jerky Turkey" also has the blakced-out byline, since it was also sourced from an Eastman print. I also saw before on Youtube a print of the Barney Bear short "Wild Honey" with the blacked out byline, but it was taken down along with the original uploader's account itself (who was "CartoonPressureCooker", if somebody remembers him).

Also, "Irina Margareta Nistor"? Is that a Romanian name, I suppose?

Yes, that's right, she's Romanian.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irina_Margareta_Nistor

Anyways, how come that out from these three prints, "The Little Orphan" uses a 1960 MGM Cartoon card?
And yes, surprisingly "Jerry's Cousin" actually looks okay, so it might be the real Technicolor print.

I'd upload them somewhere if you want to see just how bad they look, although I don't really know where

 

[Cool_Cat]

Interestingly the Italian 70 print of Jerry’s Cousin had the Technicolor line blanked out. The same happened to The Bodyguard which had the same splice when Jerry whistles.

That lion card with the MGM card is actually the same being spliced on many shorts. There’s also one with the blue background 1950s title (used in The Cat and the Mermouse) which was even used for The Duck Doctor in the Italian print, and the 60s lion card which I believe was taken from Carmen Get It.

 

[EmitterCollector]

Well, apparently the version I have on my tape of "Jerry's Cousin" looks like a Technicolor print, hence it retains the "Color by Technicolor" line.

 

[EmitterCollector]

Interestingly the Italian 70 print of Jerry’s Cousin had the Technicolor line blanked out. The same happened to The Bodyguard which had the same splice when Jerry whistles.

That lion card with the MGM card is actually the same being spliced on many shorts. There’s also one with the blue background 1950s title (used in The Cat and the Mermouse) which was even used for The Duck Doctor in the Italian print, and the 60s lion card which I believe was taken from Carmen Get It.

I don't think it's Carmen Get It as that one doesn't have CARTOON underneath. Might be a extended version of those found on "Mouse Into Space" and "Dicky Moe" (notice they both have CARTOON underneath)

 

[Daffyrocks]

Yeah, that MGM lion card isn't taken from "Carmen Get It" AT ALL, as it doesn't have the "CARTOON" below at all. And it seems to not be taken from any Gene Deitch short as well, as the MGM logo doesn't fade out there before the next card pops in. So that was made especially for the 60s theatrical reissues, from which "The Little Orphan" apparently also got its master for that Romanian print.

Interestingly the Italian 70 print of Jerry’s Cousin had the Technicolor line blanked out. The same happened to The Bodyguard which had the same splice when Jerry whistles.

Those were not sourced from the Technicolor prints, unlike the old Romanian airings.

Anyways @EmitterCollector, can you send me your full old Romanian-lectored prints of MGM cartoons in PM? I really wanna see them now

 

[Cool_Cat]

My bad. I guess they had that one before the Deitch cartoons were made actually.

This is the Italian print of Jerry's Cousin (sorry about the quality, that guy threw the tapes in the trash literally a week before I asked him).

Interestingly the Italian print of The Two Mouseketeers looks just like the non Technicolor shorts, even though the MGM card isn't altered.

I SWEAR the Italian print of The Million Dollar Cat looks better than the restored one.

Same goes for Puttin on the Dog and The Bowling Alley Cat. Too bad I didn't record them. The Lonesome Mouse instead had the Technicolor line but was terrible.

 

[Daffyrocks]

Interestingly the Italian print of The Two Mouseketeers looks just like the non Technicolor shorts, even though the MGM card isn't altered.

They forgot to black out the byline by mistake

Anyways, I would like to know the difference meaning of these two versions of the 1954-1958 MGM Cartoons logo

I mean why were two variants, of different colors and shade, made? Couldn't they stick on a single version? The latter one can mostly be seen on reissues.