so I've finally watched JLU

[Duke]

But all that stuff was happening in Terry's head. Since when was Terry such a drama-queen? And why would he spend endless minutes contemplating how rude and angsty he'd be towards his JLU partners and Bruce? Overboard. And I'm pretty sure he knew what the other partners went through during ROTJ.

But he hasn't truly experienced it. He was only Batman for 1 or 2 years at the end of BB/ROTJ. Epilogue takes place 15 years later. A LOT can happen in 15 years.

Given that Themyscira keeps people immortal

Vandal Savage is immortal. The Amazons aren't (or else we'd see them in Hereafter). They may live a really, really, long time, but it's not like they can't be killed (though the definition of kill comes into question with all the gods roaming about).

 

[SuperBat]

Yeah, it's a swing. I wrote that the first time, but my friend's first language isn't English. So yeah, I heard "see-saw" and typed it.

I understand. I wasn't being hateful. I was just pointing it out.

When God opens a door, he closes a window.

Ooookay.

We're doing fine in the standing and sitting arrangement
My friend says exaggeration shouldn't force you to compromise construction. The shot of Terry is a key frame pose, not an in-between or motion blur. "Exaggeration doesn't mean dislocation", unless in the context of an extreme, in-between or motion blur.

Your friend says a lot.

Here the characters are obviously stretched. There's no dislocation. The joints are in the right place and the proper body parts are jointed in the proper place. The other one isn't exaggeration - it's dislocation.

No. I could rummage through early BTAS, late JL, midway STAS, or all of BB and find many, many poses like the one you're focusing on here. I'm not going to, but if I stumble upon one in my viewing, I'll be sure and let you know.

That worked because of the context and texture. It's suppose to move...everything is soft and stretchy, but Terry is supposed to be stiff and scary. Not the same situation.

Bruce is coming out of Clayface. Terry is leaning over. "Maybe his head just falls down whenever he gets serious?" Ooh, my friend is clever

Your friend has obviously never seen someone in the position Terry's standing. Try leaning against the arms of a chair (make sure it's facing you), and lean your head down as if you're glaring into the face of the person before you. Believe me, it works, and Terry's pose is actually fairly realistic.

The neck is actually something my friend takes issue with. He won't say anything more than that.

Is your friend still hanging around? Ask him for us. And let us know next time which thoughts are yours and which thoughts are his. It's getting a bit crowded on your end.

 

[DisneyBoy]

Is your friend still hanging around? Ask him for us. And let us know next time which thoughts are yours and which thoughts are his. It's getting a bit crowded on your end.

I've always said which thoughts were his and which were mine. I like giving people credit. As for general terms, all of my previous 6 thousand or so posts were strictly me. This guy's only been here for today.

So friend...why is it you really dislike Terry's neck in that shot?

He replied "It doesn't make sense. That's it."

Is it the veins?

"It's lost in it's own geometry and it doesn't make sense in the end."

Okay. So I'm going to encourage him to open an account and stop speaking through me like that demon from "The Exorcist". He won't, but it sure was fun for today don't you think?

...and find many, many poses like the one you're focusing on here. I'm not going to, but if I stumble upon one in my viewing, I'll be sure and let you know.

Oh goodness yes. PLENTY of poorly drawn characters and poses all throughout the DCAU. But the better episodes have few of them. This isn't one of the better episodes.

"You can't expect an episode to only have good poses".

Hey, whose side are you on? Shhh!

Your friend has obviously never seen someone in the position Terry's standing.

I just made the position in front of him and even if my shoulders were super, super inflated, my neck still connects to my spine.

"I don't see how having that position would allow my head to float freely across my melting body. Find a photo of a real person doing that on the net!"

Geez, do I have to? *Searches* No good pictures to link to, sorry folks. Anyhoo, that pose could have been better. Not the end of the world though.

Your friend says a lot.

Tell me about it. It's getting him to stop that's the hard part. I'm calling it a day.

 

[SuperBat]

I've always said which thoughts were his and which were mine. I like giving people credit. As for general terms, all of my previous 6 thousand or so posts were strictly me. This guy's only been here for today.

Well, this is what I was referring to:

What happened to his neck?

It sounded like your issue. No big.

"You can't expect an episode to only have good poses".

Hey, whose side are you on? Shhh!

With friends like that, who needs enemies?

I just made the position in front of him and even if my shoulders were super, super inflated, my neck still connects to my spine.

So does Terry's. His shoulder conceals that.

"I don't see how having that position would allow my head to float freely across my melting body. Find a photo of a real person doing that on the net!"

Geez, do I have to? *Searches* No good pictures to link to, sorry folks. Anyhoo, that pose could have been better. Not the end of the world though.

Of course it isn't, and I'm not trying to make a big deal out of nothing. But I looked at myself in a mirror and saw the same position I see Terry in. My shoulders don't rise quite as high, but a real person doesn't have the oh-so-impressive physique these characters have. Have you ever seen one of our heroes from the back? Their waist connects to a huge upper back. Find me one person who looks like that.

 

[Arrakhat]

DisneyBoy, I looked at the lips again. Terry's lips start under his nose, just like several folks from the shot in Maid of Honor. They go a little bit further to the edge of his face than is necessary, but that's it. Is that what defines whether or not an episode's animation is good? The animation of one characters lips in one quick scene? Sounds like as minute of a detail as you could choose to harp on (as opposed to your other examples, like small Shayera. That one was more helpful in proving your point than this shot).

As for Batman coming out of Clayface, you can't excuse that by saying that everything is "soft and stretchy." It's hypocritical to harp on Terry's neck looking awkward (which it doesn't, I've seen that pose used by real people) but say that Batman's neck can be at least twice as long as his head is thick.

 

[Christopher Glennon]

At the risk of pissing off the majority of this board, I'm going to say that Wonder Woman can beat any of Batman's villains better than Batman can. Sure, she's not quite as smart, but she's so far ahead of him physically that it more than makes up the difference. Yeah, she might be a liability at times, but much more than that she would be a huge asset. If Batman can't recognize that, he's not quite as bright as we thought he was.

It's not that Wonder Woman would be a liability, she would be a great help to Batman (I could see her taking out many Gotham crooks as easily as she did Toyman in "Hereafter"), but the risk is far greater to him than anything she'd add. I don't think Wonder Woman can fight all of Batman's villains more efficiently than he can. She wouldn't be able to stay ahead of them, which is the key to taking them down. Not all fights can be settled physically (particularly with Scarecrow, Poison Ivy, Mad Hatter, or Hugo Strange), so WW could find herself at a disability, and to Batman, one mistake is all it takes.

One of my biggest complaints is the fighting. It seemed like every other episode we got a big, huge metabrawl amongst villains, and after a while it just became stale seeing these big melees so damn often. Big, huge, melees are usually saved for the season finales for a reason, and because we got so many big brawls, we rarely got to see a lengthy fight between two individuals (Supes vs. Captain Marvel was the only one I can think of, and that one needed exaggerated explosions to make it look like something different from the normal "I punch you, you punch me" affair), and even more rare was an entire episode dedicated to only story. If DBZ and Naruto, with its slower pacing and longer episode counts, can make entire episodes work without any fighting whatsoever, I don't see why JLU couldn't do it. Just because it's an action show doesn't mean there has to be a big fight every 5 minutes.

It's because DBZ and Naruto have so many episodes that they get away with devoting dozens of episodes to stories that only take a few hours or a day in their time. Unless it's a big finale like the end of the Cadmus arc, JLU's episodes have to contain a beginning, middle, and end. That involves the hero(es) confronting the villain(s) and a super powered battle.

 

[HaagenDas]

I dont know why you guys are picking on the animation. It just seems nit picking. They were good enough I thought, and I am a person who likes DCAU because it is NOT campy and aimed at more sophisticated audiences.

As for Epilogue being when BB "jumped the shark" I think that makes no sense. Jump the Shark refers to the point where a series starts losing popularity. BB was well cancelled off. This was just skipping years sine ROTJ.

 

[BigFatHairyDeal]

It's not that Wonder Woman would be a liability, she would be a great help to Batman (I could see her taking out many Gotham crooks as easily as she did Toyman in "Hereafter"), but the risk is far greater to him than anything she'd add. I don't think Wonder Woman can fight all of Batman's villains more efficiently than he can. She wouldn't be able to stay ahead of them, which is the key to taking them down. Not all fights can be settled physically (particularly with Scarecrow, Poison Ivy, Mad Hatter, or Hugo Strange), so WW could find herself at a disability, and to Batman, one mistake is all it takes.

This is where the talk about how Batman is always two steps ahead of everyone is completely contradicted by what we actually see. Batman catches crooks, crooks get sent to Arkham, crooks escape Arkham, and the process starts over from square one. Batman doesn't stay ahead of his villains, either. That's why each episode of BTAS and TNBA is a whole new battle for him, because they find the loopholes that Batman can't permanently patch, either.

Honestly, it just doesn't make sense that Batman fears WW as a liability but is okay with letting Dick, Tim, or Barbara fight with him. Wonder Woman is the most gifted crime fighting woman on the planet. She's way beyond Batman's sidekicks. In many ways, she's way beyond Batman, too. Hence, I conclude that Batman's line was meant to be a bad excuse that we're all supposed to recognize as a bad excuse. Batman's villains, as a whole, aren't any smarter or more dangerous than anyone else's. They just have good personality quirks and are easy to write into good stories.

 

[Duke]

On WW: While, yes, she could physically take out most of Batman's villains, even in Season 3 she still got pissed off really easily, which would aid villains like the Joker or Mad Hatter who specialize in taunting.

It's because DBZ and Naruto have so many episodes that they get away with devoting dozens of episodes to stories that only take a few hours or a day in their time. Unless it's a big finale like the end of the Cadmus arc, JLU's episodes have to contain a beginning, middle, and end. That involves the hero(es) confronting the villain(s) and a super powered battle.

Yes, but that doesn't mean there has to be a big huge melee every other episode or an action scene every 2 minutes. Samurai Jack, for example, managed to pace things very well (though that's in part because no two fights were the same, which can't be said for JLU at all). Hell, almost every single 13-episode/26-episode action anime have episodes where very little actual fighting going on.

 

[Arrakhat]

Yes, but that doesn't mean there has to be a big huge melee every other episode or an action scene every 2 minutes. Samurai Jack, for example, managed to pace things very well (though that's in part because no two fights were the same, which can't be said for JLU at all). Hell, almost every single 13-episode/26-episode action anime have episodes where very little actual fighting going on.

This Little Piggy, The Greatest Story Never Told, Question Authority, Flashpoint (besides the Superman/Capt Atom fight early on), Epilogue, etc. Those are all episodes where, while there is fighting, it is minimal, and takes a back seat to dialogue and characters development. And those aren't the only ones. Some episodes are all about action, true, but many only use fights to help the plot progress, or to introduce new characters from the DC vault.
Example: The opening fight in Shadow of the Hawk. It's only purpose was to put Shayera where she would meet Carter Hall and to give a look at the animated Extremists. It hardly lasted long. It also showed John displaying his affection for Vixen., which was needed.

 

[SuperBat]

This is where the talk about how Batman is always two steps ahead of everyone is completely contradicted by what we actually see. Batman catches crooks, crooks get sent to Arkham, crooks escape Arkham, and the process starts over from square one. Batman doesn't stay ahead of his villains, either. That's why each episode of BTAS and TNBA is a whole new battle for him, because they find the loopholes that Batman can't permanently patch, either.

Batman often keeps tabs on his villains, but he doesn't moonlight as an Arkham Asylum guard. If they constantly escape (and I often wonder what those guards are doing with their time), it's not Batman's fault. He probably keeps tabs on every inmate there, but there are too many to keep up with. He's only one man.

On top of that, he probably gave up on Joker altogether. What's the point? We know he's going to get out, so just let him do it.

Honestly, it just doesn't make sense that Batman fears WW as a liability but is okay with letting Dick, Tim, or Barbara fight with him. Wonder Woman is the most gifted crime fighting woman on the planet. She's way beyond Batman's sidekicks. In many ways, she's way beyond Batman, too. Hence, I conclude that Batman's line was meant to be a bad excuse that we're all supposed to recognize as a bad excuse. Batman's villains, as a whole, aren't any smarter or more dangerous than anyone else's. They just have good personality quirks and are easy to write into good stories.

I did take it as a bad excuse, though perhaps one Batman is trying to convince himself of. His sidekicks aren't romantic figures in his life, and while it doesn't necessarily justify putting children in the line of fire, it's easier for a hard-nosed guy like Bruce to endanger young men like Dick and Tim than it is for someone he cares about romantically (Andrea, Lois, Diana, etc.). Yes, Barbera became a romantic figure to him, but it didn't start that way, and we all know it was a trainwreck.

As far as Batman's villains not being any smarter or more dangerous than anyone else's, it depends on who you're talking about. If you're comparing Killer Croc to Parasite, okay. But if you're comparing the Mad Hatter or Scarecrow, they could outthink many villains (even people like Sinestro and Metallo) any day. They just don't have the power to back it up. Ra's al Ghul, for instance, is smarter than most of the villains we've ever known.

 

[Master Moron]

I dont know why you guys are picking on the animation. It just seems nit picking. They were good enough I thought, and I am a person who likes DCAU because it is NOT campy and aimed at more sophisticated audiences.

As for Epilogue being when BB "jumped the shark" I think that makes no sense. Jump the Shark refers to the point where a series starts losing popularity. BB was well cancelled off. This was just skipping years sine ROTJ.

I actually meant Justice League Unlimited jumping the shark, not Batman Beyond.

 

[HaagenDas]

I actually meant Justice League Unlimited jumping the shark, not Batman Beyond.

Ah, that makes much more sense. And something I completely agree with too.