Most upsetting moment in pro wrestling

[Wade Kruse]

WWE's overall handling of women's wrestling is what you could call "upsetting" to me. The way they clearly encourage looks over substance, and hire/push vapid bikini models while people like Nattie and Katie basically do nothing, is annoying. What makes it even worse is they continue to push this "women are good for T&A first, ability second" garbage even when they're supposed to be a more kid-friendly product. Women's feuds are hardly ever given any serious thought and are so bland and basic most of the time...they make no real effort to get fans to care about the feuds or the titles. Women's wrestling can be damn good but the WWE almost seems to WANT their division to suck. It's gotten to the point where I'd rather just see Beth pull a Chyna and win a midcard belt instead of wallow in the women's division going nowhere.

As for moments, though, this goes to something that happened in PWG. So around the time of the Benoit thing, Human Tornado was playing sort of an abusive pimp character. Basically, he treated his valet like garbage, and even roughed her up sometimes. So he has a match on the card, and throughout the whole match he's "accidentally" letting her get in the way of people's moves, and just in general making sure she's getting hurt. Finally, she has enough of this, and does something to cause him the match. So it ends, and he flips out on her, and starts yelling at her. And she does the whole "please forgive me" routine like a whore would to her pimp.

This is offensive enough already, but what makes it truly terrible was Tornado smacks her down, and then puts her in the crossface for cheap heat about a month after the Benoit murders.

It was absolutely disgusting, and the reason why I don't watch PWG.

 

[Perry]

Eddie Guerrero's death really hit me hard. To this day, there are times when I think about how much professional wrestling would be different if Guerrero was still around.

 

[Good Ol' Batmanuel!]

Speaking of women's wrestling, one thing I found sort of interesting is that when Jerry Lawler was on "Off the Record" once,he said he doesn't like women's wrestling and thinks they shouldn't do it. Maybe he's forgetting that these aren't exactly the classiest women in the first place. And that he shouldn't be talking much about women in the first place.

 

[Hobbes829]

Speaking of women's wrestling, one thing I found sort of interesting is that when Jerry Lawler was on "Off the Record" once,he said he doesn't like women's wrestling and thinks they shouldn't do it. Maybe he's forgetting that these aren't exactly the classiest women in the first place. And that he shouldn't be talking much about women in the first place.

whoa! what does class have to do with wrestling ability, for one? What's with the last line? I agree with him about women's wrestling. It's not fun to see women beat eachother up? There's nothing feminine about it. I wouldn't bat an eye if it went away.

JR stepping down and Johnny Ace stepping up as VP of Talent relations. One was good at his job, the other doesn't seem to be nearly as competent.

 

[Good Ol' Batmanuel!]

I partially meant classy as far as Jerry's involvement with women is concerned, but didn't write that very well. When I think of classy lady wrestlers/valets/managers, I think of someone like Miss Elisabeth (not perfect herself, but I mean mostly on-TV persona), not the 'we love featuring our ladies in the nude' thing that seemed to be going on for several years there, with Mero, Wilson, Massaro, etc.... I must say, though, that they seem to have toned that down. Can't remember if they stopped pushing the Playboy thing before or after WWE became a public company.

 

[Hobbes829]

they didn't stop until WWE went PG

What's his personal life have to do with his views on women's wrestling? It's probably best we have this conversation through PM.

Playboy's fairly classy.

The death of the territories is a moment to lament if you like watching good seasoned wrestlers

 

[Wade Kruse]

Women shouldn't wrestle because it's not "feminine"? Wow. Just wow. Hooray for horrible gender stereotyping.

 

[Hobbes829]

Women shouldn't wrestle because it's not "feminine"? Wow. Just wow. Hooray for horrible gender stereotyping.

because you disagree and find women beating the heck out of eachother, i'm labeled as a sexist?

I'm fine watching things like buffy and alias, but i just don't find it appealing in real life. Even if pro wrestling is a work, there's still legitimate pain involved.

 

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Eddie Guerrero's death really hit me hard. To this day, there are times when I think about how much professional wrestling would be different if Guerrero was still around.

Too many of my favourite wrestlers died off. I quit watching it because of this. I think the pro wrestling industry is far too lax when it comes to maintaining the health of their wrestlers. And I know for a fact that Vince did (and still probably does) hands illegal drugs to wrestlers under the table to keep them going.

It's far too ruthless a business IMO

 

[Hobbes829]

These are grown men and the dangers of drugs are well known. It's not the job of the boss to play mom and dad for them. How do you know for a fact that he hands them drugs under the table?

Yes, a lot of the deaths have hit me as well, but management isn't to blame. The fact that some of them can't keep their priorities straight and turn to something for a cheap high is what upsets me.

 

[FTPC]

I have two that stand out When chris benoit died and when ric flair had to step down and another sad part for me is when RVD, Sabu, Sandman and haymen left ECW..

 

[PTurkey]

Some of the most upsetting moments for me that didn't involve somebody dying were the Raw and PPV after Billy & Chuck's ill-fated wedding. Eric Bischoff in disguise is one of my favorite surprises ever in wrestling; he played the fake, senile justice of the peace to perfection. When he said "three minutes" and took off his face, I was like .

They follow it up the immediately with significantly lamer derivatives, Steph McMahon as a fake protester (not even the lead protester), Rikishi in drag. It felt like it watered down the awesomeness of the wedding. It really annoyed me much more than it should have.

because you disagree and find women beating the heck out of eachother, i'm labeled as a sexist?

I'm fine watching things like buffy and alias, but i just don't find it appealing in real life. Even if pro wrestling is a work, there's still legitimate pain involved.

What's the difference between guys wrestling and women wrestling besides a few body parts, really? Women can vote and drive race cars and run for president nowadays; having the opportunity to pretend to fight is not much more to ask for. They're grown women that know what they're getting into.

 

[Hobbes829]

Some of the most upsetting moments for me that didn't involve somebody dying were the Raw and PPV after Billy & Chuck's ill-fated wedding. Eric Bischoff in disguise is one of my favorite surprises ever in wrestling; he played the fake, senile justice of the peace to perfection. When he said "three minutes" and took off his face, I was like .

They follow it up the immediately with significantly lamer derivatives, Steph McMahon as a fake protester (not even the lead protester), Rikishi in drag. It felt like it watered down the awesomeness of the wedding. It really annoyed me much more than it should have.

What's the difference between guys wrestling and women wrestling besides a few body parts, really? Women can vote and drive race cars and run for president nowadays; having the opportunity to pretend to fight is not much more to ask for. They're grown women that know what they're getting into.

It's like the NBA vs. the WNBA. It's just not as good. This isn't an issue of ethics, it's an issue of aesthetics.

That billy and chuck think was upsetting because it was a cheap publicity stunt that wasn't going to end well.

 

[PTurkey]

It's like the NBA vs. the WNBA. It's just not as good. This isn't an issue of ethics, it's an issue of aesthetics.

That billy and chuck think was upsetting because it was a cheap publicity stunt that wasn't going to end well.

"It's not as good" is completely different from "it's not feminine." I'd somewhat agree with you if that's the case. I haven't seen any women do the impressive, acrobatic moves an AJ Styles or Evan Bourne does (which I know isn't your bag anyway), and if I only watched WWE, I would be in definite agreement. But I buy SHIMMER DVDs, and the upper card of those shows aren't just good women's wrestling, it's good wrestling period. I've also seen youtubes of Joshi, Luchadoras and Bolivian Cholitas so I know better than to write off half of the world's population.

A huge part of the appeal of the Billy and Chuck wedding was that it was a cheap publicity stunt that wasn't going to end well. It added to the atmosphere.

 

[Wade Kruse]

Yeah, saying that you think women's wrestling just hasn't been very good in the WWE and you don't enjoy it is a lot different than implying it should be done away with because it's not "feminine". The latter IS a sexist attitude.

The WWE women's divison leaves a lot to be desired, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be great if they actually put some effort into it. There's women in the indies and in other countries that are capable of putting on geat matches. Beth, Katie, and Nattie can too, if they would actually be put against people that can match their skills.

I don't see how getting rid of women's wrestling is a better solution than simply putting in a real effort to make it better. It's sad the the WWE is still stuck in it's ways when TNA has proven that women's wrestling can be a highlight of the show.

 

[Hobbes829]

I also don't find it to be very feminine or sexy. I'd prefer not to watch women in contact sports. I'm okay with BB, soccer, golf, etc. Just not wrestling, boxing or MMA.

I'd rather give the spots to males and put women in managerial positions or as valets.

As for the Billy and Chuck thing, it's a moral issue. I'm not gay (not that there's anything wrong with that), but i think portraying 2 guys who at the end sound like they are homophobic isn't the most positive message.

 

[Djm912]

Starting from the simulcast of the final WCW Nitro, and pretty much onward, WWE's overall Orwellian brainwashing of the wrestling public has been upsetting to me.

WCW always sucked, apparently. Crusierweight and light heavyweight wrestling was never cool. Wrestlers in Mexico and Japan only want to come to WWE, and Vincent Kennedy McMahon is the greatest genius that ever walked the earth.

 

[Hobbes829]

Starting from the simulcast of the final WCW Nitro, and pretty much onward, WWE's overall Orwellian brainwashing of the wrestling public has been upsetting to me.

WCW always sucked, apparently. Crusierweight and light heavyweight wrestling was never cool. Wrestlers in Mexico and Japan only want to come to WWE, and Vincent Kennedy McMahon is the greatest genius that ever walked the earth.

Wow! Except that since WWE's ratings plumetted since then i'd say he hasn't done a very good job of brain washing people. They left en masse.

No one said cruiserweight wrestling wasn't cool. It's just that the masses don't generally tune in to watch acrobats week in and week out. They tune in to watch grown men fight, real or fake.

What upsets me is the degradation of the business through the proliferation of wrestling schools being opened up by people that aren't qualified to train people in the art of wrestling. Today we have every Tom, Dick and Harry putting on a pair of boots and tights (and sometimes not even that) and calling themselves wrestlers.

 

[krazymed]

What upsets me is the degradation of the business through the proliferation of wrestling schools being opened up by people that aren't qualified to train people in the art of wrestling. Today we have every Tom, Dick and Harry putting on a pair of boots and tights (and sometimes not even that) and calling themselves wrestlers.

What do you mean, exactly? What schools are you talking about? Who's training these people? What makes you think that they are not qualified to train people to wrestle? What qualifies as a wrestler to you? Were you a wrestler?

 

[Tapout]

What upsets me is the degradation of the business through the proliferation of wrestling schools being opened up by people that aren't qualified to train people in the art of wrestling. Today we have every Tom, Dick and Harry putting on a pair of boots and tights (and sometimes not even that) and calling themselves wrestlers.

I'm with krazymed. I don't see this as exactly a widespread problem, and even in the cases where it is happening its because guys like Stu Hart and Killer Kowalski are dying in rapid succession, and the wrestlers of the 80s and 90s are unwilling and/or unable to take their place. Somebody has to train the next generation and any rudimentary training they receive in a local gym can probably prepare them fairly well for today's WWE. I'm resigned to the fact that we'll never have guys like Bret Hart or Dean Malenko again. If a new wrestler can get a grasp on the basics, and more importantly is athletic, looks good, and can talk, he'll be just fine.