"Dragon Ball Kai" FUNimation Home Video Release News & Discussion

[Sketch]

Our friends at Daizex have got their in-depth review of Part One out for reading. How do long time fans of Dragon Ball feel about this release? http://daizex.com/general/reviews/zkai_1.shtml

Wow... that was pretentious elitism to the max. I barely stomached the whole thing. I really hope not all "hard-core" Dragonball fans think like this reviewer VegettoEX (who does happen to post here and will probably see this post I've made). I see where Jacob gets lines like "the universal version that everyone can enjoy" yeah well I like to hear things in my own language and it's not like DBZ hasn't been redubbed in pretty much every language by now. A lot of regions probably don't even have the Japanese version available without importing. Also statements along the lines of "and that's when you remember you're watching a FUNimation dub of Dragonball Z" are bit annoying. And the way he went on about "validation" I'd say more so he's looking for "validation" to keep that superiority complex. I'm sure you're a fine and dandy individual VegettoEX but your words paint you as someone I would not care to talk about Dragonball with.

Brace yourself, this is gonna be a long one.

It's not as if people who enjoyed FUNimation's dub didn't eventually realize it was not infact a GOOD (or entirely accurate) dub but we enjoyed it none the less. King Kai had a silly voice but believe it or not I could take him seriously when he was acting seriously worrying about the fate of the universe and such. I also am completely fine with Ox King's voice. I think it fits his personality in Z quite well. I really don't find cartoony voices all that out of place in the Dragonball franchise. It's a cartoony show afterall and some of the Japanese voices sounded pretty cartoony to me. I wouldn't say the old dub acted like a parody of the Japanese version either but I will agree the punch-up dialogue was bad, terrible infact. So I'm very glad we aren't getting very much of it in Kai's dub. I don't hate the narrator's occasional cheese though.

Sabat's Vegeta is not by any means a good voice. But you can't honestly expect them to recast him. Sabat thankfully is passing several of his roles to better suited actors for the job and I think he should have parted with Yamcha as well but it's not like Yamacha really plays a big part anyway. There were better choices for Kami, Vegeta, Yamcha and even Piccolo but if he kept any voice I'd opt for Piccolo. But you still have that factor of to US audience Sabat IS Vegeta like in Canada Drummond IS Vegeta just as in Japan Horikawa IS Vegeta. Japanese audiences couldn't fathom anyone other than Horikawa voicing Vegeta same as Nowaza for Goku and Schemmel for Goku in the US (though in Canada Goku has had a lot of VAs and opinions differ on which was the best my personal favorite was Ian Cortlett). Sabat also greatly improved his Vegeta performance. It doesn't sound like the forced beyond words Vegeta I remember and that is fantastic. I personally would have prefered someone else take on Vegeta and Goku but Sabat and Schemmel are doing admirable jobs this time around.

The adaptation is not perfect and if FUNimation made claimed that it would be entirely accurate... then they shouldn't have ever made such claims unless they were going to do it but it's not like the majority of the public would have even read those claims anywhere.

I see a LOT of flack given to FUNimation for not going all the way. They're ticked off because FUNimation was finally giving them a little bit of pleasure only to abruptly stop before well... you get the idea. And given that analogy I can understand the problem entirely. Nobody likes getting teased. People have the mindset of "all or nothing" even when it comes to trivial things like how perfect a dub is.

It is a bit baffling that FUNimation would change-back some terms and/or how terms are pronounced while keeping others locked into FUNimation dub mode. Why not change them all or keep them all? It's odd and possibly just an oversight they can fix later but inconsistency is one thing about dubs that can bother me to an extent. However, I don't really mind it as is. It's certainly better than what we had before.

Futhermore, if they got the term right and it's just a pronounciation issue I really roll my eyes at the back lash. Again why change some and not others? I have no idea. But with Kaioken in particular they probably realized people would have noticed the use of Kai all over this show and that Goku learned it from King KAI not King Kay.

Saiyan is still pronounced wrong most likely because if there is any term in DBZ people remember it's gonna be Saiyan. It should be said properly yes but again FUNimation is clearly in a struggle to keep "the faithful" while enticing more of "hardcore".

And a lot of people are acting like something for everyone is not worth it for anyone. Which is really short-sighted.

I'm not arguing it couldn't be better and I do find going halfway rather bizzare but it's still very faithful and at least IMO quite entertaining. I've known of the Japanese DBZ for years. I've seen it. I like FUNimation's dub in many ways more than the Japanese version though I don't quite love the voices or music in either. Kai for me gives me the best dub yet with improved performances from the returning cast along with better performances from new cast members and I can finally enjoy watching the story with the Japanese music and the dub not conflicting with each other (which is why I have a hard time watching FUNi's dub with the Japanese OST behind it, it really only worked for Ocean's dubs of the first 3 movies... if it even did then).

To me it's very simple if you enjoy the dub get Kai if you enjoy the Japanese then go for the Dragon Box. If you enjoy both get the Dragon Box or both or just Kai if you don't want the filler (but you're losing some good stuff with that mind you) but the Japanese performances in Kai aren't what they were in the original due to well... age obviously and the unfortunate passings of several of the original seiyu.

Anyone expecting FUNimation to rewrite history with this dub was expecting something very unlikely. If FUNimation gave that impression then they should not have made it out to be something it isn't. Kai is a very solid release akin to the great dubs FUNimation has produced since their Z/GT days or at the very least as good as their Dragonball dub which most agree was far superior to their treatment of Z and GT in the past.

 

[Brad Redfield]

I'm really looking forward to the "all-star" Ginyu Force that Sabat is cooking up.

The only VAs I can think of are Greg Ayres as Jheese and Michael J. Tatum as ReaCoom, oddly enough. Does "all-star" mean that they might dip outside of the usual Texas voice acting pool?

 

[Sketch]

I'm really looking forward to the "all-star" Ginyu Force that Sabat is cooking up.

The only VAs I can think of are Greg Ayres as Jheese and Michael J. Tatum as ReaCoom, oddly enough. Does "all-star" mean that they might dip outside of the usual Texas voice acting pool?

It might. They've taken to getting people from LA and NY and not just people they worked with before that moved to those areas. They also got Scott McNeil in the original FMA series. Perhaps they could get someone from every region. It's entirely possible.

 

[King]

I saw the Daizex link, and...Well, now some of you guys know why I really don't like going to that site any more. lol

It's informational, but annoying.

 

[GWOtaku]

I plowed through the entire review and to critics I have to say, why so serious? For a review at a website that freely admits the priority it gives to the original, Japanese version of the show, it gives the dub a lot of credit including all of the significant recasts to date. Yeah, it gets into a good share of nitpick territory and there are some opinions that I have good faith disagreement about (Kai's pacing, Vegeta's voice, etc), but with all the elitist accusations I was expecting "you shouldn't want this for it is ruined!!!!!" rhetoric. It's not even close to saying that, though.

So far as the "validation" bit goes, I'd suggest that maybe Sketch is reading too much into it. To me, this was the big point:

What FUNimation's English dub of Kai proves is that simply producing the show for what it is can create an enjoyable, legitimate, and respectful product. There is no need to "punch up" the script. There is no need to dance around foreign concepts (what few there are in this series). There is no need to change the music. There is no need to shy away from character subtleties.

There are a few comments along this line along with some bashing of the old script, and that's appropriate because that was easily the worst thing about old DBZ. It's one thing to have disagreements about the quality of acting, but there's no nuance or second side to how lines like "okay big man, whatever turns you on!" and "c'mon you guys, don't piss off the God of love!" were just bad writing. Not just inaccurate, mind you--also just plainly, really bad. It's great that this is fixed because a good dub is one you enjoy and/or accept, not something that you tolerate.

More later maybe. Just wanted to assert that it's not really offensive and is certainly very thorough in what it does.

 

[Sketch]

I don't dissagree that Dragonball Z was it was originally made stands on its own and should be able to with any audience. The punch-ups were terrible. We all know this.

Here's the thing I didn't like about the talk of validation.

VegettoEX brings it up saying that fans of the FUNimation dub wanted Kai to be the validation of what they like about the dub. Well I can't speak for anyone other than myself but I'm not seeking validation for my enjoyment of the FUNimation dub. I know it's different. That doesn't bother me. I like it just fine. Perhaps some people were and that's pretty silly in its own right.

I don't believe I'm reading into it too much that when he talks about validation he says Kai does the opposite in showing the original work can stand on it's own. This is true. But he goes on to make statements of "we were right all along". True or not it reaks of "better than you or what you think" syndrome.

And what was with that Stockholm syndrome comparison? You're comparing people wanting others to understand why they liked the dub despite its faults to a mental condition? Really?

I will give hm credit for giving some props to the dub for it's improvements but it still reaks of bias and I guess that's to be expected but you can be sure I wont bother reading a review from that website again. I prefer less bias reviews. I think a more interesting read for me would be a review coming from someone who hasn't seen Dragonball Z at all or at least from someone who has a near equal appreciation for the Japanese and the English audio tracks.

 

[Soul]

I figured I'd comment on Andrew's post; and in most regards I agree and the only thing I'd actually defend VegettoEX and most "hardcore" fans of Japanese version is, for most of them; that is the version they saw first so of course they'll be overtly protective of it and they've seen the multiple dubs and so on.

Yet my sympathy stops there, I can't how I feel about the "Overbearing Conformed Dub-to-Sub" fans -Cough- but my biggest issue as most fans in general is that YES. This whole friggin' issue is the greatest rift in Dragon Ball fandom.
Original Japanese Fans - Ocean Dub Fans - FUNi Dub Fans.
In the end, it's Dragon Ball and everyone has "original" experienced in one or another, and that's what needs to be realized here.

As for the Kai dub, yes; it is a VASTLY superior dub in compared to the original FUNi Z dub. So much so it isn't even funny in some cases, even the 2005 redubbed felt very stilted because of that dialogue. And now my only real issue in Kai is yeah, I feel all the attacks should be their original Japanese counterparts and a few voices were recast or delivered differently. Notably Sean's King Kai because of how drastically different it sounds from the Japanese Seiyu but in the end, even when I watch the Japanese version, I can't watch it for too long because I'm so use to FUNi cast.

And so, a more faithful adaption in a show much more faithful to the manga? With the sped up story and cut of filler, all with the cast I grew up with? And with minor recasts that are really much better off than the original? For Nostalgia's sake? I'm grateful.

[And..that's my two cents]

 

[Mad Mod 49]

Wow, everyone's been summing up what I feel about that Daizex review and the Dragonball otakus attitudes perfectly.

And my feelings on the original FUNI dub of DBZ: it's punched-up scripts were, for the most part, awful, but the majority of good voices, the mostly retained story, and even the music kept it enjoyable for me to watch. It's not as good as the dubs for Dragonball and Kai, but better than the dubs for GT and the Ocean dub for DBZ (which only had some good voices going for it.)

As far as voices go, there are some I find superiror to the original (like Sean Schemmel's Goku, Chris Sabat's Piccolo, and Sonny Strait's Krillin even though I like Mayumi Tanaka too) but some that flat out aren't (Sean Schemmel's Kaio, Linda Young's Freeza, and some of Sabat's many roles) But's it that way for other dubs I enjoy too. Doesn't mean they're horrible.

 

[Kaboom]

Having bought and watched the first set, I applaud FUNimation for finally giving a Dragon Ball series a good, respectable dub. But not "great" or "perfect." There's a disappointing amount of things retained from the old dub that simply shouldn't have been.

- Dumb character and attack names. They're making an "accurate" dub, but still using the names "Tien" and "Tri-Beam?" Really? I wouldn't mind if they just used "TienShinhan" or something. If they want to keep their extra little 'I' then sure, just stop rejecting the entire second half of the character's name in the process. Which reminds me, Goku has a family name: "Son." It exists, FUNi, so use it. And for Dende's sake, they need to start saying "Ki" already, instead of horribly generic terms like "energy" and "power." Both "Son Goku" and "Ki' have been getting used quite often in things like the video games, so why not in the actual series?

- A handful of random, silly line changes. Nappa's "I hate the media!" is the most glaring example, but there were a few others. Like Kami blabbering on about Goku being Earth's last hope or something, instead of talking about how Piccolo is no longer the bloodthirsty demon that his sire was, which is a HUGE part of Pic's character development.

- And of course (and this totally deserves its own spot), effin' Freeza's grating, horrible, hellishly inappropriate dub-voice. This is the ONE aspect that more than anything else needed and still needs to be changed for Kai. Don't get me wrong; I have nothing personal against Linda Young, and she does great in roles that are actually meant to sound like elderly women (such as Baba and YYH's Genkai). But her voice for Freeza has always been an inexcusable blemish on the entire production, and unfortunately it looks like it will continue to be so for Kai.

Hopefully some of these things might still change in the future (especially that last bit, if nothing else). They're really what keep this dub from being the perfect, awesome answer to the good-dub dreams of every long-suffering fan who knows better.


Okay then. I got the few big negatives out of my system. Now for the positives, and why this dub is "good and respectable." While a few somewhat-major, old-dub-inspired flub-ups remain, there's a LOT of other problems that have been fixed.


First and foremost... It actually has an accurate script. I know this aspect should be expected in ANY dub, but it's just SO good to finally be able to watch "DragonBall Z" in English and NOT be disgusted by an outright disregard for the content of the original story, that I don't care. Kai was the perfect opportunity for FUNimation to redeem themselves for their past sins with Z's dub, and, aside from a few slip-ups like those listed above, they've certainly done so with gusto.

I watched these first 13 episodes of Kai entirely via the dub, but with the subtitles for the Japanese version on. I was happily flabbergasted to discover that for at least 95% of the time, the two languages were actually saying the same thing! This is something I once never thought I'd see happen, and I'm glad I was wrong. If the dialogue continues to stay this faithful, then there's about a 5-10% shining chance that it might let me put up with Linda Young's "Freeza" voice for its sake.


Next, there were some names and terminology that were thankfully adjusted for the better. Like the "Makankosappo" (which is WAY more complicated to say than "Kikoho," by the way) and "Kienzan," though hopefully the pronunciation for the latter will be more carefully minded in the future. Finally and most blessed of all, "Kaio-Ken" is at long last being pronounced RIGHT. Now if only they could start doing the same for "Saiyan."


Last but certainly not least, the cast. Oh, the cast. I've said all I've need to say about Freeza, so no more comments on that.

First off, Sabat is really at the top of his game in this. His Piccolo voice is cool, commanding, and deep. His Vegeta is more regal and relaxed, and less raspy. His Yamcha finally sounds just like a confident macho man, instead of a jock-ish douchebag. His direction skills are to thank for a lot of the good things in Kai's dub, and I excitedly look forward to whatever he's got planned for the Ginyu Force.

Mr. Sean Schemmel is really standing out, too. I notice he's toned down the lispy goofiness on Kaio, which is certainly welcome. But I agree with whoever enthusiastically remarked on his Goku earlier. Back in the Freeza arc of Z's dub, when the cast switch from Ocean happened... Schemmel's Goku sucked. Out loud. It was obnoxious, untrained, and had little to no grounding in Goku's actual character.

But now, in Kai, after years of practice and fine-tuning... he's the shining star of the whole production. Schemmel's become a pro at delivering a good balance between the happy, carefree Goku, and the serious, pissed-off-because-you-hurt-his-friends Goku. The character is there, the proper tone is there, and when it's now coupled with a good script that no longer has Goku spouting off heroic speeches with way too many big words...

I won't declare my admiration for his work by saying, "he IS Son Goku" or anything, because that expression will always be reserved for Masako Nozawa alone. But I couldn't possibly think of anyone in FUNimation's talent pool who could pull off the job better. That's a mighty big compliment coming from someone like me who almost always prefers the Japanese version.

Next, some of the replacements. The more minor ones didn't really affect my experience one way or another (though Oolong's new voice was a bit jarring), but the major ones definitely left an impact.

Monica Rial's Bulma voice is much, much, MUCH better than Tiffany Volmer's. The tone is extremely similar, but Rial's far more relaxed and natural, instead of making Bulma sound like a shrill, screechy, annoying b*tch. Bulma was always another voice that often caused me to quickly switch away from the dub, but no more. Bulma as voiced by Monica Rial is one of my favorites.

I also have nothing but good things to say about Colleen Clinkenbeard's Gohan. I can hear a little bit of Luffy in there, true (and I'll expect the voices to be quite similar whenever she ends up voicing young Luffy). But it's not at all distracting. The best part of it is that the voice finally sounds appropriate for meek little 4-year-old Gohan.

Stephanie Nadolny's voicework for him always sounded too deep and old. At best, it was only kinda appropriate for kid Gohan at his oldest, being 11 during the Cell Games (and on that note, works great for 12- to 15-year-old Kid Goku). But it was totally unfitting for him as a 4-year-old. Ms. Clinkenbeard's rendition is FAR more believable given Gohan's age, and hopefully she'll cleverly age it a bit as Kai gets further into the story, until Kyle Hebert eventually takes over after the timeskip into the Boo arc.



So all in all, I agree with the DaizEX review's sentiments that while a lot was changed for the better, FUNimation really should have just gone all-out and not omitted the few remaining major aspects that needed change just as much, if not more. Those few things certainly don't ruin the product as a whole, but it's disappointing that they weren't addressed like they should have been.

For comparison, DBZ's original dub is a definite F for its majority, but capping out at maybe a C for a few rare, well-handled things like chunks of the Boo arc and one or two of the movies. In contrast, I give the Kai dub a solid B+. It's a very good dub and a MASSIVE step up from that of DBZ. But a few glaring, shouldn't-exist problems keep it from being "perfect."

 

[Innagadadavida]

I figured I'd comment on Andrew's post; and in most regards I agree and the only thing I'd actually defend VegettoEX and most "hardcore" fans of Japanese version is, for most of them; that is the version they saw first so of course they'll be overtly protective of it and they've seen the multiple dubs and so on.

The version they saw first was the original 1996 Ocean dub of Dragon Ball Z. They investigated further and discovered the original and decided to follow it exclusively. VegettoEX loves the FUNi/Pioneer dubs of the first three movies, but other than that, he's pretty against dubbing in general. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he believes that everybody should enjoy the original version of everything because none of it was meant to have English voices.

I completely disagree, though. But I understand the notion of always respecting work as the creators intended.

As for the review itself, well I'm a pretty regular visitor to the site and forums, so the overall negative tone and seemingly backhanded positive remarks were all expected. He has said before that he dislikes the current cast, but not with the delusion that he's objective about it.

I generally don't pay attention to their comments about the English dub. I did at first, often taking it personally, but these days I realize that I don't need them to tell me what I like is great. I can decide that for myself. I'm tickled pink about the English dub of Dragon Ball Z Kai. I love it. It's the best thing to happen on the American side of the Dragon Ball Z franchise. I can't wait to see what becomes of it's television airing. I'm hoping for a resurgence in popularity. I want to go to Walmart and see Z Kai things right next to Ben 10 and Bakugan things. Seriously. Kids these days need some great action/story-driven cartoons. Avatar repeats won't last forever.

 

[King]

Well, personally, the old DBZ dubs are really not that bad. Yeah, the new DBKai dubs is way better than the original old dubs, but it isn't bad like the DBGT dubs.

I can still go back to the old dubs and still enjoy it.

 

[Mad Mod 49]

- And of course (and this totally deserves its own spot), effin' Freeza's grating, horrible, hellishly inappropriate dub-voice. This is the ONE aspect that more than anything else needed and still needs to be changed for Kai. Don't get me wrong; I have nothing personal against Linda Young, and she does great in roles that are actually meant to sound like elderly women (such as Baba and YYH's Genkai). But her voice for Freeza has always been an inexcusable blemish on the entire production, and unfortunately it looks like it will continue to be so for Kai.

We haven't heard Freeza yet beyond his cackling in the first episode. Yeah, it's gonna be the same inappropriate voice but we haven't heard the performance yet so I doubt we should criticize Freeza in the Kai dub so harshly yet. And hopefully a script with him talking with faux-politeness rather than stupid, cringeworthy one-liners will make it more bearable.

"Kaio-Ken" is at long last being pronounced RIGHT. Now if only they could start doing the same for "Saiyan."

After years of "Saiyan" and "Super Saiyan", I didn't want them to start using Saiyajin. Ever.

I won't declare my admiration for his work by saying, "he IS Son Goku" or anything, because that expression will always be reserved for Masako Nozawa alone.

As in, Nozawa's been doing this character the longest? Than yes. But being a better voice for fully-grown Goku? Hell no.

But a few glaring, shouldn't-exist problems keep it from being "perfect."

Didn't I once say that no dub is perfect? Heck, barely anything in the world in perfect. You shouldn't expect otherwise.

Well, personally, the old DBZ dubs are really not that bad. Yeah, the new DBKai dubs is way better than the original old dubs, but it isn't bad like the DBGT dubs.

I can still go back to the old dubs and still enjoy it.

Quoted for truth. They're totally inaccurate to be sure but not as horrible as hardcore fans will make them out to be.

 

[Kaboom]

We haven't heard Freeza yet beyond his cackling in the first episode. Yeah, it's gonna be the same inappropriate voice but we haven't heard the performance yet so I doubt we should criticize Freeza in the Kai dub so harshly yet. And hopefully a script with him talking with faux-politeness rather than stupid, cringeworthy one-liners will make it more bearable.

I sure hope so. If Freeza doesn't end up recast at the last minute for future episodes (which I haven't given up hope for), then I can at least expect that Linda Young's rendition will be improved through the script and direction.

As in, Nozawa's been doing this character the longest? Than yes. But being a better voice for fully-grown Goku? Hell no.

I disagree and chuckle a bit, but whatever. More power to ya.

 

[KYO'NYUU IMOUTO]

Aw, crap. I promised myself I was going to see how long I could go without posting. Obviously this thread is doing just fine without lil' ol' me.

After years of "Saiyan" and "Super Saiyan", I didn't want them to start using Saiyajin. Ever.

They just have to correctly pronounce 'Sai', not switch over the 'Saiya-jin'. Check Ryô Horikawa for how to do it right.


Alrighty, time to fly.


Without bukûjutsu.

 

[Dragonpiece]

Freeza Recast?

More hints that there's a big change on the way beyond Vic singing the opening on TV, and...it again seems to be hinting at a new Freeza.

From Sean Schemmel's Facebook.

ORIGINAL: Rory
There was all sorts wrong with the original Dragon Ball Z dub Sean.
Music, dialogue, edits, unfitting voices (a few sadly transitioning to Kai.. I'm looking at you mrs.Young!!), not to mention the acting (no offence Sean, but I honestly couldn't take you seriously in your first appearance vs Ginyu).
But enough bashing, FUNimation has matured into a much more respectable company with great dubs, like Full Metal Alchemist (one of my absolute favourite dubs), as has it's voice actors and actresses.

And I'm sure Dragon Ball Kai's dub will be another of FUNimation's greatest quality dubs... except Freeza's dub voice, which I still loathe.

ORIGINAL: Sean
Oh, but Rory, there is a surprise coming your way...

So either it's that, it's a different surprise we're all misinterpreting, or the surprise coming is Schemmel drive-by slapping his haters.[8D]

 

[G1Ravage]

If they recast Freeza, I wonder if they're working it in by using the old Linda Young voice for first-form Freeza, and then the new voice for the other forms. That way they can use the transformation clause as an excuse to change the voice.

Because we've already heard Linda Young as Freeza in the first episode.

 

[Taekmkm]

So? It's not like recasts during show runnings never happened before.

 

[Mad Mod 49]

If they recast Freeza, I wonder if they're working it in by using the old Linda Young voice for first-form Freeza, and then the new voice for the other forms. That way they can use the transformation clause as an excuse to change the voice.

Again, that's what should be done. Linda Young changed her voice with each transformation in the old dub. Kai's dub could take it a step further by changing the voice actor with each transformation.

I disagree and chuckle a bit, but whatever. More power to ya.

I'm just sayin': it's hard to take a castrated sounding Goku seriously.

 

[PC!]

If they recast Freeza, I wonder if they're working it in by using the old Linda Young voice for first-form Freeza, and then the new voice for the other forms. That way they can use the transformation clause as an excuse to change the voice.

Because we've already heard Linda Young as Freeza in the first episode.

I could deal with that, though I'd find it weird having Freeza's voice change drastically considering his final form isn't much different than his first form.

 

[Chaotic-Strike]

If they recast Freeza, I wonder if they're working it in by using the old Linda Young voice for first-form Freeza, and then the new voice for the other forms. That way they can use the transformation clause as an excuse to change the voice.

Because we've already heard Linda Young as Freeza in the first episode.

That would be a pain for the games. Cell's voice is messed up as it is, I'd rather them just change it completely.