C&C - Sword Art Online - "Crimson Killing Intent" [10/5]

[GingaDaiuchuu]

Yeah, and I knew what 16.5 was about in advance (though I've heard that even the author apparently considers it more fan fiction than anything). I'm just not seeing why I should take a psuedo-canon sequence of the light novels out on an anime adaptation that pretty much removed all trace of it.

Obviously we should all be expected to have read every H-doujin associated with a title and base our opinion of the anime adaptation of the source material said H-doujin was spun off from on it. You're not allowed to just watch a show for the show.

 

[Light Lucario]

He hasn't gotten any less bland, but I do think he's gotten to be a bit less of a Stu lately. I mean, even getting a new superpower out of nowhere, he still had only a sliver of health left when the fight was over, he lost his duel to Heathcliff, and he needed Asuna to bail him out after getting poisoned. Not trying to defend him, just giving a little credit there.

I'm not sure if I feel the same way about Kirito becoming less of a Stu lately, but I can see where you're coming from with losing the duel to Heathcliff and needing Asuna to help him out. Having only a silver of health after using his new superpower is more like the price for his deus ex machina than anything else for me.

 

[WickedChild]

Gary Stu's can be good, fun, and compelling characters.

Dante of Devil May Cry is an example of a good, fun character, despite being a stu. Kirito...isn't

Then say "he's a boring character, because..." Don't say "he's a Gary-Stu". Because, honestly, Gary-Stu/Mary-Sue is probably the dumbest, most overused criticism among those too lazy to explain why they don't like a character. In fact it's probably the second-most misused term on all of the internet, second only to "Deus Ex Machina".

And honestly I'm not even trying to say he's some kind of great character, but there is more there than what such a lazy description as "boring" or "Gary-Stu" would imply. In fact, if anything I'd say his overpowered nature is actually a good thing in a literary sense, as it leads directly to his lonliness, guilt, and ultimately his connection with Asuna. That right there makes him compelling enough for me. Not, it won't win Kawahara any Pulitzers, but it works in the context of the show enough to make me care about the show's world (which is really what the show is about), even if he is "boring". And furthermore, I am talking specifically about what we've seen in the SHOW, not the novels/manga/etc. Those could very well be terrible, but could still serve as the basis for a good show, but I think it's safe to say some of us here (no names mentioned) have let the LNs color our opinion of the show.

Finally, all of this still fails to explain to me why the events of this episode are supposed to be some kind of watershed moment of clarity that makes me realize how stupid I was for finding any enjoyment in the first nine episodes. I still don't see why them shacking up is some kind of ultimate no-no. If anything, I give the show credit for going that direction, as it's not something you see often in fantasy/sci-fi anime (again, I'm talking about the show, not the LN series). And really it barely happened, I mean Kirito sitting on the bed fully clothed when Asuna wakes up isn't exactly a clear indicator. If it wasn't for what I've read about what happens in the LN chapter, I would still be wondering if they did or not.

 

[TheGunheart]

In this case, it's because of the anime's format. I really wouldn't call him one based on the material taken from the first novel; he's been defeated, he has some character flaws that aren't glossed over, and even his Deus Ex Machina was beaten by the second thing he used it on.

The problem is that by adapting the short stories first, we have a Kirito that spends all of two episodes before he becomes some invincible badass without showing a lick of effort for it who's biggest flaw was not telling people right away how awesome he was and the occasional romantic comedy hijinks with Asuna.

I do agree the term can be overused, though.

 

[vegeta95748]

This was an ok episode. SAO so far has been a mediocre show. I still find it enjoyable, but I expected far more from the so called best anime of 2012.

I'm legitimately confused as to why people are so offended over this. Seriously. I didn't really seem to think that there was anything worth getting offended over in this episode. Yeah, had sex. Somebody please tell me what is so offensive about that. I'll admit that I don't have the keenest of eyes when it comes to catching things in tv shows; usually I just watch the show without thinking of the deeper meaning behind some events. So, if there's something in that scene that is worth getting offended over, please, point it out to me, because there's a good chance I didn't catch it.

 

[Rynnec]

The outrage is more due tobthe blatant wish fufillment-vibe. There's nothing wrong with a couple having sex, but the whole thing with Kirito wanting to escape to some houae by a lake so he can live with Asuna, and marry her despite them only being teenagers felt a wee-bit like an adolescent fantasy played depressingly straight. Like a really bad YA novel.

 

[Light Lucario]

The outrage is more due tobthe blatant wish fufillment-vibe. There's nothing wrong with a couple having sex, but the whole thing with Kirito wanting to escape to some houae by a lake so he can live with Asuna, and marry her despite them only being teenagers felt a wee-bit like an adolescent fantasy played depressingly straight. Like a really bad YA novel.

I can definitely get the blatant wish fulfillment vibe with Kirito and Asuna going off to get married and the whole situation being played straight. It's pretty bad writing, especially given that their relationship is not engaging at all for me and there hasn't been much good buildup for their relationship to move to this point to begin with, but it doesn't seem as bad as some people have been hyping this episode up to be. It certainly isn't worse than episode three for me.

 

[vegeta95748]

I can definitely get the blatant wish fulfillment vibe with Kirito and Asuna going off to get married and the whole situation being played straight. It's pretty bad writing, especially given that their relationship is not engaging at all for me and there hasn't been much good buildup for their relationship to move to this point to begin with, but it doesn't seem as bad as some people have been hyping this episode up to be. It certainly isn't worse than episode three for me.

I agree with you. I mean, I guess I can see how terrible writing like this can make some people frustrated with the show, and that "let's escape far away and be together" is pretty cliched, but... I just don't see the hate. I don't see how so many people get so mad over something like that. I mean, if it offends them, who am I to say they can't be offended, but.... yeah, to me, it's just some bad writing, plain and simple.

As for the remainder of the show, if THIS is how bad it get, then the rest of this should be a cake walk. I DARE it to get worse.

 

[TheGunheart]

As someone who knew only about the show before it came to Toonami as "the one about that creepy MMO where players can have sex", I know I was expecting that to be a lot worse. Heck, if I didn't know about 16.5, I would assume nothing happened at all given how Kirito's fully clothed and just seems to be checking on Asuna.

 

[Gatomon41]

This, seriously, was your big "I told you so" moment? Wow, you people are bigger prudes than the Parents Television Council. Seriously, someone needs to explain to me how the addition of a sexual relationship between two characters who are obviously in love is somehow the worst thing in the world, or even a bad thing for that matter. As for their relationship not having any buildup, I guess knowing each other for 2 years and fighting on the front lines risking their lives together doesn't count. As for this episode's "infamous" scene - my god, they showed her in her underwear for 5 seconds. South Park and Family Guy do worse than that on a weekly basis and nobody cares.

Just out of curiosity, since this is apparently, unbeknownst to myself, a bad example of a sexual relationship in anime, can someone point me to a good example? Because apparently I know nothing.

Because SAO does it so awkwardly and clumsy with a subject that needed to be handled with care and maturity. And inserts said scene in an episode with just as much ineptitude.

The outrage is more due tobthe blatant wish fufillment-vibe. There's nothing wrong with a couple having sex,(snip)

Except in this show. It's bad enough that the circumstances within the show make it weird, but there's already the awkward and disturbing fanservice of previous episodes.

 

[Gold Guy]

I actually liked the episode. I do think the romance was kinda rushed, but otherwise, it was fine. The fight at the beginning had really great animation, and the psycho guy torturing Kirito was genuinely hard to watch. And Asuna got to fight a bit too, that was cool. I will fully admit: I laughed when Kirito brought up the marriage.

 

[Lord Dalek]

the so called best anime of 2012.

Last time I checked SAO was not titled either Girls und Panzer, Shinsekai Yori, or Jojo's Bizarre Adventure.

 

[vegeta95748]

Last time I checked SAO was not titled either Girls und Panzer, Shinsekai Yori, or Jojo's Bizarre Adventure.

Eh, I'll admit I didn't look that up, I just go by what I hear. Still doesn't matter much, I still expected more of it.

 

[Megumi]

Seriously, someone needs to explain to me how the addition of a sexual relationship between two characters who are obviously in love is somehow the worst thing in the world, or even a bad thing for that matter.

No one is being a prude about the sex alone. It's the lack of build-up that we got towards this moment. We were constantly beat over the head that these two love each other or are falling in love, but they've been doing it terribly. Few scenes of actual development of their relationship and the few we do get feel cheap (like Asuna needing Kirito to fight a duel for her even though she seemingly had the power to relieve her guard of his duty at any time or Asuna needing Kirito to fight a duel against the guildmaster even though we're under the assumption that she's a capable warrior and could've just done it for herself) and the good ones are even fewer. This leads to their relationship looking like a below-average romance anime that no one cares about. They literally just fall in love in front of our eyes.

This below-average romance then culminates here. We get all of this "build up" to them finally having sex to show how much they lover each other, but do we really care about their relationship or the characters? No one here does. The sex scene comes off as nothing more than a cheap way to write a lemon in a story. The author is going "see, look! they love each other" while a bunch of people are like "eh, so? you probably just wanted to write a sex scene." When no one is invested in this pairing, things like this don't mean anything and come off as unwanted smut for the most part. We get that they're in love, but the audience has no reason to care about their love.

As for their relationship not having any buildup, I guess knowing each other for 2 years and fighting on the front lines risking their lives together doesn't count.

How much of that have we seen? Not much. We "hear" about their behind the scenes exploits through the dates on the screen that show time passing. We see little of it ourselves. There's a difference between hearing about their loves and seeing it ourselves. You're more invested in something you witnessed than with some you heard about and have seen tidbits of. And wasn't Kirito a solo player for a majority of those two years?