Biggest "what ifs?" in animation history.

[Rick Jones]

After watching Anastasia recently, I wonder what a Don Bluth take on My Fair Lady would have been like. For those of you not in the know, 20th Century Fox gave Don Bluth the choice of doing a remake of Anastasia or My Fair Lady. I think he made the right choice because Anastasia allowed more fantasy elements that would be better for animation.

This randomly makes me remember there was a King and I movie, probably by Richard Rich or someone else. I wondered if any other old musicals were pushed.

Perhaps not the thread to discuss this, but in recent years I've started to doubt this story (it seems to come from a single, not particularly substantive, source), and even if it is true I certainly don't think he would have succeeded had he gone through with it, which always seems to be the unspoken assumption whenever it was brought up. We all know The Flintstones was more than a little "inspired" by The Honeymooners, but that doesn't mean it would fit any legal definition of plagiarism, the similarities are in isolation all pretty generic things that Gleason certainly didn't invent; there is perhaps nothing The Flintstones shares with The Honeymooners, that The Honeymooners itself doesn't share with Laurel & Hardy's Sons of the Desert.

But going with the idea that he did somehow succeed I guess that would have put pay to Scooby-Doo as we know it, as that is widely believe to have been similarly inspired by Dobie Gills. You'd like to think maybe Hanna-Barbera would have gone for more original ideas, or maybe they would have just doubled down on the celebrity cartoons and live action tie-ins.

What implications would it have retrospectively as a precedent I wonder? Would MGM have been able to put pay to Herman & Katnip for being too close to Tom & Jerry? Would Superheroes be OK; when we get down to it, aren't most superheroes at least a little derivative of Superman or Batman? Would the owners of The Shadow have been able to put pay to Batman? How far could it have gone?

That's a big part of what got Fawcett Comics shut down later bought by DC/National. They sued their competition for Captain Marvel's similarities to Superman.

The Honeymooners stuff makes me think of the Warner Bros. shorts that were even more blatant than Hanna Barbera with the Honeymooners and Jack Benny parodies, etc. WB tried to crack into original TV animation, judging from the Road Runner pilot. The animation seemed so good for that era of TV, and expensive. I wonder if it would have been sustainable, if a network took the bait.

 

[Peter Paltridge]

And on the opposite end of the spectrum, what if Reagan hadnt deregulated children's programing (meaning no toy-based cartoons)? Would the creator-driven cartoon trend of the 90s to present happen earlier?

It's really hard to say, because it wasn't happening BEFORE deregulation. "Either give us a group of teenagers with a fuzzy sidekick solving mysteries or GET OUTTA HERE."

Truly creator-driven cartoons didn't start appearing until two things happened: The Simpsons premiered on Fox and Nickelodeon introduced the Nicktoons. The level of rules regarding the commercial motives of a cartoon had nothing to do with either thing happening.

 

[Pooky]

It's really hard to say, because it wasn't happening BEFORE deregulation. "Either give us a group of teenagers with a fuzzy sidekick solving mysteries or GET OUTTA HERE."

Truly creator-driven cartoons didn't start appearing until two things happened: The Simpsons premiered on Fox and Nickelodeon introduced the Nicktoons. The level of rules regarding the commercial motives of a cartoon had nothing to do with either thing happening.

I also think it was the result of a few years of more exciting animation bubbling under at places at film (and indeed animation) festivals, which occasionally caught the mainstream's attention, especially when the creatives would go on to more mainstream projects like music videos. That and a growing renewed appreciation for Golden Age animation, which was crystallised by the success of Who Framed Roger Rabbit?, the start of the Disney Renaissance, Bugs Bunny's 50th Birthday etc.

Also it didn't hurt that the toyetic/syndication-driven action shows craze burned out relatively quickly, which in turn had I think been inspired by the pivot to action/fantasy in mainstream US films (Star Wars, Superman, Indy, Conan etc.), the 70s having tried to refelect the film culture of the time in its own way (Jabberjaw, Hong Kong Phooey, The Dogfather, The Oddball Couple). These things never come about because of a single factor. To answer my own question, if more toy cartoons had come after Hot Wheels they probably would have been similar in tone to the shows that were being made at the time anway (e.g. Hanna Barbera's Evil Knievel show).

 

[Surreal Kangaroo]

Another thing I thought of is I wonder how things would be if Amblinmation was successful. Disney would have gotten a major competitor sooner. Like would Dreamworks still be a thing?

 

[Classic Speedy]

Imagine if Seven Arts hadn't brought Looney Tunes back under the WB studio in 1967, DePatie-Freleng coud've hypothetically kept the Looney Tunes theatrical shorts going into the '70s, much like The Pink Panther.

 

[toonatic#_#]

What if Loonatics Unleashed stuck with it's original concept and art style?

 

[John Pannozzi]

Another thing I thought of is I wonder how things would be if Amblinmation was successful. Disney would have gotten a major competitor sooner. Like would Dreamworks still be a thing?

Or heck, what if Disney didn't buy ABC back in 1995-96, and DreamWorks got to create programs for ABC's Saturday morning block (which was initially the plan at the time)?

 

[Vuxovich]

What if Xiaolin Chronicles got its second and further seasons?

 

[Zorak Masaki]

What if Learning With Pibby had been greenlit?

 

[Spacething7474]

What if Troy Walker won his lawsuit against SpongeBob infringing on his 1991 comic/novelty toy Bob Spongee?

 

[awinger24]

What if Ann Sarnoff stayed at Warner Bros.?

Tom Ascheim would've stayed too. Cartoonito would have been a permanent stay. And I feel that Lola Bunny and Tweety could've replaced Bugs Bunny as the mascot. Space Jam: A New Legacy being a success might have meant the Looney Tunes as we know it would be Disney-fied.

 

[Leviathan]

This is one I raised before,

Instead of letting adult swim have Family Guy for basically nothing, FOX makes it too expensive for Cartoon Network to license, or says they can't have it?

 

[stephane dumas]

Or heck, what if Disney didn't buy ABC back in 1995-96, and DreamWorks got to create programs for ABC's Saturday morning block (which was initially the plan at the time)?

Sorry for being late to reply, but if Disney hadn't buy ABC back then, we could wonder if Reboot would have stayed on ABC a bit longer? And we could wonder if Reboot would have got a second chance on Cartoon Network had ABC picked up for 1 or 2 more seasons?

 

[Vuxovich]

What if Turner bought the Ruby-Spears animation studio back in 1991?

 

[dfwtoons]

*What if Family Guy was never resurrected after its planned post-Season 2 cancellation?

In all likelihood, MacFarlane's entire career would have been effectively neutered and he'd be a relative nobody in the industry.

*What if Fox had picked up South Park when they had the chance?

It likely would have been cancelled just a few seasons in, and much more sanitized. The fledgling Comedy Central network would have also long faded into obscurity like its predecessors.

*What if Klasky-Csupo were still animating The Simpsons (and Gabor Csupo didn't let his ego get the best of him)?

They'd likely be a much bigger player in the industry, even today. Most of its other independent pitches after losing that contract failed to match the success of The Simpsons and Rugrats. In hindsight, I'm sure Klasky-Csupo didn't expect The Simpsons to continue as long as it has (and become such a massive cultural phenomenom) and will admit that was a poor calculation on their part.

*What if The Jetsons (1960s) had ran for as long as The Flintstones?

There'd probably be no 1980s reboot.

*What if Nickeledon had not resurrected Rugrats after its Season 3 cancellation?

There'd likely be no "As Told By Ginger," "The Wild Thornberries" and "Rocket Power."

*What if Paul Germain had returned as showrunner for Seasons 4+ of Rugrats?

There'd likely be no Kimi or Dil.

*What if King of the Hill were picked up by ABC after Fox cancelled it?

*We'd likely not have the time jump we do in the reboot.

*What if Dancer Fitzgerlad Sample had never gotten into the TV syndication on one of their biggest clients' behalf (General Mills)?

*A ton of (now classic) shows/cartoons would have been lost in obscurity as future generations would not have been exposed to them.

 

[Spacething7474]

*What if Paul Germain had returned as showrunner for Seasons 4+ of Rugrats?

There'd likely be no Kimi or Dil.

There probably wouldn't be All Grown Up (and by proxy Pre-School Daze) either since he said that he found the former and "the next 65 episodes" to be poor in quality.


What if Phineas and Ferb was picked up as a show when it was first pitched in 1992 insteas of taking 15 years to become a show?

 

[Stumpos]

*What if Nickeledon had not resurrected Rugrats after its Season 3 cancellation?

There'd likely be no "As Told By Ginger," "The Wild Thornberries" and "Rocket Power."

To be fair, I doubt Rugrats not getting revived would've impacted Klasky-Csupo producing other Nicktoons. They already produced Aaahhh Real Monsters in the hiatus between seasons 3 and 4 of Rugrats so the idea they'd produce other non-Rugrats Nicktoons isn't farfetched.

 

[harry580]

To be fair, I doubt Rugrats not getting revived would've impacted Klasky-Csupo producing other Nicktoons. They already produced Aaahhh Real Monsters in the hiatus between seasons 3 and 4 of Rugrats so the idea they'd produce other non-Rugrats Nicktoons isn't farfetched.

yeah, that's what I think of that so too, and besides, klasky csupo was working on a show for fox around the time rugrats original ending in 1994 that became wild thornberries, so

 

[Spacething7474]

Speaking of Wild Thornberries, what if its initial 1994 pitch (an adult animated sitcom for Fox titled Nigel Thornberry's Animal World) was picked up?

 

[dfwtoons]

To be fair, I doubt Rugrats not getting revived would've impacted Klasky-Csupo producing other Nicktoons. They already produced Aaahhh Real Monsters in the hiatus between seasons 3 and 4 of Rugrats so the idea they'd produce other non-Rugrats Nicktoons isn't farfetched.

That's the nice part "what if" questions are about right? We all get to speculate on what could have been, lol.

You could be right, but it's still a good question though IMO because I also doubt Nickelodeon would have greenlit other cartoons from them after Aaaahhh! Real Monster came to a rather underwhelming end, and Rugrats probably would have never returned with new episodes had the first 3 seasons not done so well in reruns. Nickelodeon wasn't exactly hurting for other options (programming-wise) at the time.