"All-Star Superman" Feature Talkback (Spoilers)

[k.s.]

I don't know. I've watched this movie twice, and about the best thing that I can say about the movie is that it's ok. It's definitely not bad. All of the voice actors did a nice job. Christina Hendricks probably gave the best performance of all as Lois Lane. And speaking of Lois, probably my favorite part of the movie was Super Lois.

Really the only complaint that I have about the movie itself is that there wasn't a very good explanation for who some of the characters were. You have to understand that I know absolutely nothing of this movie's source material. So I know absolutely nothing about this "Samson" character or this "Dr. Leo Quintum" (whom by the way was voiced very nicely by Alexis Denisof). So that's the problem that I'm having with this movie. Do I need to be an expert on the source material to truly understand these characters?

I had similar sentiments. On the one hand, I thought the premise of this movie was phenomenal and to the movie's credit, it more than delivered with Superman, Lois, and Lex's characterizations during the film. So in that sense, it was a great film. I loved seeing Clark come to terms with his condition and do all the great things I would expect from Superman as he prepares for his impending death. Watching Lex slowly reform over the course of the movie was a real treat as well. And the voice actors were truly spectacular - I hope they reprise their roles in future movies/tv shows.

Yet all the extraneous characters left me in the dark. I wondered if I was supposed to know who these people were beforehand, as if I was missing out because I wasn't intimately familiar with who they were. Now sure, I was able to pick up on the basic things from the context like Ed mentioned (like Atlas and Samson were strong men from future who like to mess with time, Quintum's a crazy smart scientist, etc.), but I still felt I wasn't able to experience the fully story because I had to fill in the gaps every 10 minutes for all these new and unexplained characters with no help from the movie. This really bugged me with Solaris - to my knowledge, he/it was never mentioned in the movie prior to his appearance, but he comes out of left field, apparently forms an off-screen partnership with Luthor, and apparently all the characters in the film know that Solaris is the bad guy blocking the yellow sun even though he's never been mentioned before and the viewers have no reason to suspect his involvement based on the movie thus far. Given his importance to the film's plot, I would have liked a little more than for me to assume on my own that he's a mechanical, artificial sun.

Now, none of this ruined the movie for me by any means, but in my mind, this caused what should have been a great movie to just be above average. An enjoyable movie with a great premise, but nothing spectacular.

However, I will accept that maybe I'm not the expected audience since I have not read the comic. My experience with Superman is strictly limited to live action and animation, so I'm not readily familiar with the more obscure characters. So I will concede that some of my displeasure with the film may just be because I'm not the target audience.

 

[JTMarsh]

The chosen segments were handled very well, but I was disappointed that they didn't do the Zibarro segment. I've got no complaints against the voice acting. After all, how can you not love Ed Asner as Perry White (and this years after he played J. Jonah Jameson in the 90s Spider-Man series). Kind of ironic they get James Denton to voice Superman after he played the love interest to former Lois Lane Teri Hatcher on Desperate Housewives.

Still, part of me wishes they'd stop trying to adapt such complicated stories, name recognition be darned (not sure I can use the more profane D-word here).

 

[James Harvey]

Released exactly one week ago, let's keep the discussions on the All-Star Superman animated feature flowing. Additionally, click on the image below to view the All-Star Superman features reviews at The World's Finest.

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[Garada]

Viewer Reactions

I'm a huge fan of the DCAU and DC Universe DTV series, and an even bigger fan of the writing of Grant Morrison. That is to say, this one's a no-brainer for me, undoubtedly one of my all-time favorite pieces of DC Animation; I give it [*****]!

I did however share this film and discuss it with a number of people whose interest in DC Animation and knowledge of Grant Morrison do not quite rival my own...

My Girlfriend - She's a fan of Smallville, having watched every episode so far. Despite not really liking animation very much, she's watched almost all of the DCU DTVs [because I have the darn things on all the time, and get especially excited when a new one comes out]. In general, she seems to think they have way too much action and fighting. I personally enjoy the action scenes, but I can definitely see her point in some of these films. She gives All-Star 3 Stars [***], and noted that she especially enjoyed the dry humor. Keep in mind, for her a *** review [aka 'I liked it'] for an animated feature is high praise indeed.

My co-worker, Tom - I've shared pretty much all of the DCU DTVs with him, he's enjoyed them all to varying degrees, and he loves Superman. When we play HeroScape, he uses Superman; he's got a Superman shirt, a Superman keychain, and his wife even bought him Superman underpants! I don't think he knows Grant Morrison from a hole in the wall, although he likes to read comics when I bring them in to work. He shared All-Star with his sons, aged 3, 5 & 7. They all enjoyed it, with the only question being 'Daddy, what's pure energy?'. His youngest boy even asked him to put it on again last night! Tom gives it an 'I liked it' 3 Stars [***], particularly enjoying the weird concepts like the Cosmic Anvil, and the fight with Parasite. As a side note, Tom is also a fan of Smallville, and we discussed how it was interesting seeing all of these different interpretations of Superman and the little differences in continuity; in Smallville, Lois knows about Clark's special abilities BEFORE he's even Superman, where in All-Star, he's obviously been Superman for a long time, and she still has no idea!

My courier, Paulo - He buys all of the DCU DTVs the day of release, just like me. He loves super heroes, especially the films and animation. He's from Guatemala but speaks great English; however he hates to read, so he's not at all familiar with the actual comic books; I imagine Grant's stuff would go way over his head! He didn't enjoy this one nearly as much as most of the other DCU DTVs, putting it down in his Bottom 3, citing a lack of action; however he still gives it a 4 Star [****] rating, due mainly to the awesome animation and greatness of the few awesome action scenes that do occur. Unsurprisingly, his FAVORITE DCU DTV is 'Public Enemies', which is one of my LEAST FAVORITES! Funny how we're both big fans of the DCU series yet rate them almost completely differently.

I shared this flick with several others, but I haven't heard their reactions yet. I've been talking about this movie a lot, and recommending it to lots of people. Gotta spread the good word!

 

[Bat-Fan Beyond]

That's awesome, Garada. I like that you got outside opinions from others on the film. I think it's pretty common knowledge here on the boards that each and every DCAU feature seems to be divided in opinions -- one person's most hated is another's most favorite -- and it's obvious from the reviews that All Star Superman is no exception.

As a matter of fact, All Star Superman seems to be further divided, just like the original Morrison/Quitely comic is, amongst really big fans of Superman; Some people love the story and concept, some people just don't get it, and some, even if they do get it, don't like the actual storytelling or presentation.

But you really have to give credit to the film and the talent behind it for taking on the difficult task of adapting the comic series and being able to utilize and distill as much of the story and designs as possible into a limited animated feature and still have it speak to people, on at least some level, who are not really familiar with the source material or, in some cases, not even huge fans of comics.

 

[BigFatHairyDeal]

A-S Superman was probably the closest thing any Superman story was going to get to being universally appealing to the die-hard Superman fans. As with any story, there are people who don't like it, and there are people who will think a praised story is overrated, but in the past decade I've witnessed a lot of fans vocalizing their displeasure for the ongoing titles but heap a good amount of praise on A-S Superman and Red Son. It's kind of too bad, though, that neither story adapts super easily into a 70-minute movie. Red Son might be worse, considering it skips years to jump to vol. 2 and again to vol. 3.

I would agree, though, that the movie staff did a great job adapting the story. The story is a bit over-the-top; I also think it's the best Superman story in ages, but I probably could've done with a more toned down environment with fewer wacky sci-fi elements. Those elements would've likely put off a fair amount of casual fans picking up the movie, so cutting down some of the more bizarre (pun intended) sequences worked great for appealing to a wider audience.

 

[James Harvey]

A new studio-conducted interview with actress Christina Hendricks, the voice of Lois Lane in the recent direct-to-video All-Star Superman animated feature, has been released by Warner Home Video, in addition to new images and videos. Click here or on the thumbnail below to check it all out.

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Stay tuned for more content next week.

 

[adoptedBatpuppy]

Loved the comic, love this movie. More details will be forthcoming when the review is published.


The other cool thing about this change is how it comes back to the story element of how Luthor says he'd have saved the world if only Superman weren't in it. He gets his wish: he's left in a world without Superman, and ultimately takes up Superman's challenge to save the world, just like he said he would. And how does he do that?

By giving the world Superman back.

To paraphrase Dave Campbell, Hell Yeah!

BTW, the whole Bar-El and Lilo subplot ties in directly to the scene immediately following (Superman visits Lex in jail). It's the recognition of forgiveness and the value even in people like Bar-El and Lilo had that prompts him to make that visit and lay down that challenge, which pays out by the end. They do also address the fact that it doesn't fit in to the story too well in the commentary (definitely worth listening to, if only to hear Grant Morrison expound on how cool Superman is in his Scottish brogue), although I don't know that it will necessarily satisfy.

I didn't much like that Solaris fight-ending line, either, although I think it's also taken in context of the sacrifice of Robot #7 (which Robot #7 thought was necessary because of Solaris' actions) and the loss of the Sun Eater immediately before. Solaris is also clearly presented as a machine since Superman rips out chunks of machinery from it -- intelligent but still mechanical. Maybe there's a thing in there about machines that they do what they're programmed to do and are inherently incapable of getting past that. The Superman Robots are programmed to be like Superman. Solaris is programmed to be a Tyrant Sun. There is no forgiveness for him because forgiveness implies a hope that the forgiven had a choice in their actions, and can make choices in the future influenced by the earlier forgiveness. This is not possible with a machine like Solaris. Plus, he isn't killing him as much as shutting him down in the usual cartoon lethal force escape clause .

I also think that the Superman Squad would have been a bit too much too much if they had done it, since it would have required at least one big action set-piece to come off successfully (even if we only see it in the periphery). It might have aligned with the running theme of forgiveness, but I think the Bar-El and Lilo story does that more effectively without as much extra baggage attached.

As you can tell, I find worlds on worlds in this movie in the same way as the comic, and if the movie isn't quite as manic as the comic in that regard, it kind of has to be that way or else the movie just becomes utter nonsense (and they address that in the commentary, too). However, there's a whole lot of structure and parallels in this movie, all oriented around a small handful of themes. I think the end effect is that it's a machine so complex and intricate that it LOOKS like chaos.

My only disappointment was Dr. Quintum. I was hoping for something a bit wilder and more eccentric from him, and I was sure they were going to do the pattern-overlay trick they use in Chowder and Gankutsuou for his rainbow coat. He's still kind of cool here, but not cool enough. I'm not sure you could make the guy I see in my head without having him usurp the whole movie, though.

I also think that "it's been done before" is absolutely the wrong criticism to lay on this movie. Sure it has (whatever "it" is), but never this well and never this intelligently, I don't think.

EDIT:


The commentary notes that they're using some elements of sun god mythology, especially the parts where they tend to die and come back just like the sun does. I think Bruce Timm even admits he hadn't thought of that when Grant Morrison brings it up. There's also the early line in the movie where Lois writes the Superman stories in advance. When she declares, "He's up there fixing the sun and when he's done, he'll be back," she's doing it again.

Plus, you can link that to the Ultrasphinx plot element earlier: Superman is in a Heisenberg uncertainty state, both dead and alive simultaneously without any contradiction. Think about it.

Similarly, Luthor may die physically, but he won't die forever because of his work -- cracking the genetic code for Superman. There's also a lot tied up in his fate metaphorically that links into the themes of redemption and forgiveness that runs throughout the movie.

Ed Liu,

I love your reviews, even though sometimes I don't agree with all points written in them. Great emotionally charged film...on some levels even more so then Batman: Under the Red Hood. The characters also show their trust in Superman especially Lois. I think the crew did an amazing job retelling Grant Morrison's version of Superman and how he takes care of everybody and everything, and only then he thinks of himself. What I noticed is there were quite a few scenes that were missing from the 12 issue comics, but that is understandable with any adaptation. Some of the characters were unknown to me even though I read the comics, there is just not that much info on them even in the comics. So I guess we just take them for what they are. Still a very enjoyable movie that is open to viewer interpretations not matter how you watch it.

 

[suss2it]

In the comic, when Superman knocked over the old man who was about to have a chunk of debris fall on him, Superman actually neatly folded the man's belongings in an organized pile. That scene was pretty emblematic of why A-S Superman was such a blast to read, as the dialogue and the pictures were like in perfect sync. The movie projects most of this feel, but as I said it was a favorite comic panel of mine and I was disappointed it didn't get translated.

Didn't even notice that. Now that I see it in the comic, I also wish they would've got that in there .

I think most superhero stories condition you to think you need the explanations, but you really don't.

I agree completely. We saw enough of all those characters to get a sense of who they are and how they relate to Superman to understand what's going on. We didn't need an eloborate explanation of each person and how they got where they are now and their first interactions with Superman etc.


Very good movie. Liked all the voice actors, James Denton makes a good softer Superman.

The animation was also excellent. The fights were more intense then I expected since this is rated PG. So I didn't really expect to see Luthor melt a guard's upper body off.

The story overall was great, and it was a great adaption of an amazing story. A lot of the dialogue was also lifted directly from the comics, which I thought was cool. Haven't watched this with the commentary track yet, but it's too bad that it's Bruce Timm & Grant, instead of Dwayne McDuffie & Grant Morrison, since I think they'd have more to talk about seeing as though it was Dwayne who was writing the script. I think it would've been really interesting to hear their views on All-Star Superman.

The twist that Luthor is the one to crack Superman's DNA was great and I prefer it over the comic version, where it was just Superman's gift. Some of the cuts I wasn't too keen on were the Superman Squad, the Kandorians who stay back to cure the world's diseases, and suicide girl. I really wish these movies were at least 90 minutes so they could get stuff like that in there.

Overall great movie, and it's a shame that Dwayne won't be around to write anymore since his two are 2 of my top 3 favourites.

 

[MILatino]

Here's the point of view of someone who doesn't read the comic books. I have no knowledge of what went on in the written version.

There are spoilers ahead.

This movie was not that good. There were far TOO many characters and mini-plots in the move that simply had no bearing to the main story. The two super-powered guys vying for Lois' affections at the center of the earth, the two Kryptonians appearing and taking over while Superman was away, etc. They needed to take the basic core of the movie and stick with it, not go all over the place... literally. They also had too many people who I just plain never heard of.

They missed a good opportunity with the Parasite sub-story. Since Superman revealed the truth to Lois, it would have been a great sub-story to have Luthor suspect Superman's secret when Parasite went bonkers and got strong. Why? Didn't Luthor have the slightest idea why he would suddenly get so strong? That was the only point in the story where Luthor literally stopped thinking.

I also don't buy the super serum Lois and Lex drank. That whole idea was very contrived.

There were also things that confused me. Such as, didn't Lois learn of Clark's identity in the Doomsday movie? So there's no continuity among these movies and S:TAS?

 

[suss2it]

This movie was not that good. There were far TOO many characters and mini-plots in the move that simply had no bearing to the main story. The two super-powered guys vying for Lois' affections at the center of the earth, the two Kryptonians appearing and taking over while Superman was away, etc. They needed to take the basic core of the movie and stick with it, not go all over the place... literally. They also had too many people who I just plain never heard of.

I think if they just had the basic core of the story (which is what exactly?) it wouldn't have been entertaining. The two Kryptonians were there to show the clash between Superman's dual cultures, as well (and more importantly) showed his capacity of forgiveness. Subplots don't always have to have a direct impact on the main plot to be entertaining or interesting.

They missed a good opportunity with the Parasite sub-story. Since Superman revealed the truth to Lois, it would have been a great sub-story to have Luthor suspect Superman's secret when Parasite went bonkers and got strong. Why? Didn't Luthor have the slightest idea why he would suddenly get so strong? That was the only point in the story where Luthor literally stopped thinking.

He did have an idea. His idea was that Parasite was feeding off of his (Luthor's) natural awesomeness. He's so self-obessed that he naturally assumed that a power-hungry creature like Parasite would be after him over anyone else.

I also don't buy the super serum Lois and Lex drank. That whole idea was very contrived.

It's a movie about a baby that came from a planet that exploded and came to Earth and was able to fly and had laser beams that came from his eyes. Superhero movies are naturally gonna feel contrived if you don't have any willing suspension of belief.

There were also things that confused me. Such as, didn't Lois learn of Clark's identity in the Doomsday movie? So there's no continuity among these movies and S:TAS?

None of those 3 are in continuity with each other.

 

[Yojimbo]

There were also things that confused me. Such as, didn't Lois learn of Clark's identity in the Doomsday movie? So there's no continuity among these movies and S:TAS?

To add to suss2it's reply, there is no continuity at all between the movies. Each movie belongs in their own stand alone universe. The continuity that includes S:TAS ended with JLU.

Arguably, Superman/Batman: Public Enemies and Superman/Batman: Apocalypse could be in continuity with each other as they are from the same comic book series but for the animated movie versions, you don't have to see one to understand the other.

Arguably, events that happened in Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths are similar to events that happened offscreen between the animated series, JL and JLU.

 

[Robert McSantos]

I still think they can make issues 4, 6, 7, 8, and 10 into a second movie if they want. Midquels aren't unheard of, after all. With a small amount of rewriting, they could even turn those stories into a sequel staring Superman Secondus.

For those who want to know whether Superman lived or died, I suggest you hunt down a paperback called JLA: One Million. Or, if you don't feel like doing that, you can just read these spoilers.

Spoiler

Superman does survive, but he doesn't emerge from the sun until the 853rd Century, long after everyone he knew and loved is gone.

However, Superman meets Lzyxm Ltpkz, one of his descendants who is also descended from a Queen of the Fifth Dimension. Lzyxm is able to use a preserved DNA sample from Lois Lane to resurrect her as a being made of pure energy, just like Superman has become.

Then Superman and Lzyxm combine their powers to bring back Krypton and it's entire population, exactly as they were before the planet blew up. Except this time, Krypton's sun is yellow, so everyone has powers like Superman.

And they all lived happily ever after.

 

[Lord Sidious]

Regarding All-Star Superman and JLA: One Million



So i guess those stories are NOT in same conituity as the DC modern Superman comics??


I thought after All-Star, Supes became that "energy" Superman version in the comics?? You know his makeover into that Blue energy who is pure energy who controls electro-magnetism instead of having superhuman strength. Then split into Blue and Red later on.

 

[Wonderwall]

Regarding All-Star Superman and JLA: One Million



So i guess those stories are NOT in same conituity as the DC modern Superman comics??


I thought after All-Star, Supes became that "energy" Superman version in the comics?? You know his makeover into that Blue energy who is pure energy who controls electro-magnetism instead of having superhuman strength. Then split into Blue and Red later on.

You are correct, All Star Superman and JLA One Million are their own universe and aren't in continuity with the main Superman comics. All Star Supes doesn't become energy Supes not just because it's not in continuity but Superman Red and Blue came a number of years before All Star was published.

 

[Robert McSantos]

Regarding All-Star Superman and JLA: One Million



So i guess those stories are NOT in same conituity as the DC modern Superman comics??

JLA: One Million was definitely supposed to be in-continuity, because the bulk of that story is all about the heroes of the 853rd century teaming up with their present day counterparts. Of course, the setting was so ridiculously far in the future that it didn't really have much impact on the DCU of the here and now, other than introducing the robotic version of Hourman who stuck around for a while.

All-Star Superman is more of a borderline issue. It was the second of the two stories to be published, making it a prequel of sorts. It was intended to be the story of Superman's last adventure, even though Superman will never really have a last adventure because his comic will keep going forever. So you could think of it as a near future that we'll never actually reach, always just on the edge of the horizon. Or you could think of it as an Elseworld that has nothing to do with anything. It doesn't really matter.

Somewhat related, a recent issue of Superman/Batman implied that an adult Damian Wayne will one day form his own World's Finest team with Superman Secondus.

 

[James Harvey]

Warner Home Video has provided a new studio-conducted interview with award-winning writer Grant Morrison, the author behind the original All-Star Superman graphic novel. in addition to new images and a video. Click here or on the thumbnail below to check it all out.

​

Stay tuned for more content later this week.

 

[BigFatHairyDeal]

I was watching the commentary track for the first time today when a topic came to mind:

Is it safe to assume that everyone knew by the movie's end that Superman = Clark Kent? Luthor's closing dialogue with Dr. Quintum mirrors the opening lines of the movie, including "kindly couple," suggesting he knows the Kents found and adopted Superman. The movie also shows Clark remove his suit in the Daily Planet, but we don't see who sees it, and nobody says anything when likely they would've been jaw-to-the-floor shocked to find out. I bring it to attention because the comic specifically made it a point that the Daily Planet staff couldn't fathom the idea that Clark Kent could do something so resourceful and heroic; Steve Lombard even makes a comment about how it must've been Superman disguised as Clark because Clark looked "too buff." Jimmy reasons similarly when he retrieves a spare Super suit, and even to the end the secret ID was safe.

Also, upon reviewing the fight with Solaris, it seemed pretty anticlimactic. When Solaris killed the Sun Eater, Superman got ticked off and proceeded to wail on Solaris. Seems like beating Solaris was just a matter of getting angry enough to fight harder, ala DBZ Super Saiyans (not a good thing, IMO). Other than making the protective suit, there wasn't a lot of ingenuity or creativity in winning the fight, which is atypical relative to the conflicts in the story, comic and movie.

 

[Ed Liu]

I thought "kindly couple" at the end meant Superman and Lois. "Doomed Planet" becomes Earth, "Desperate Scientists" are Lex and Dr. Quintum, "Last Hope" is Superman himself, and the "Kindly Couple" are Superman and Lois that will join together (genetically, at least) to create a new "Superman." The "kindly couple" could also be Lex and Quintum, but then we're either doubling up or need another set of Desperate Scientists.

I don't think the status of the secret identity is very clear by the end of either the book or the movie. The comic does make the point of having everyone at the Planet assume that Superman disguised himself as Clark Kent for whatever reason (in addition to Steve Lombard's comment, I think Cat Grant also makes a note of how toned Clark's butt is), but I don't remember anybody saying, "Where's Clark?" at the end of the comic either. I presume it's become public knowledge, but it's also not as important any more. The ending means the status quo has changed pretty dramatically, so I don't think the secret identity is as relevant.

And yeah, I thought the Solaris fight could have used a bit more goosing in the movie. However, I always took the quick victory to be because Robot 7 broke through Solaris' surface before burning up. That allowed Superman to reach in and rip out important looking circuitry.

 

[Rabi~en~Rose]

Luthor would mess with the sun? thats just going to far Supermans going to die again? clumsy Kent! his keys hiding spot is pretty good why keep stuff around that can hurt you?? he makes suns and fake Lois's both of which is weird! being lied to makes you go crazy or not super powers are a cool birthday present even better then alien flower bouquet! from the earths core to outer space. poor evil lizard guy... these super guys are super flirty and whats a ultra sphinx and the arm wrestling champ is superman! why is Luthor still alive and around hardware and tools and stuff? this life sucking monster is way gross! more awesome clumsy Kent action! Superman doesn't have a way or know anyone that can unshrink people? really? more evil kryptonians what a big surprise they broke the moon!! electric chair is no match for superpowered lemonade! robot 7 noooo! Solaris goes down but right away theres still more evil afoot. Metropolis can't catch a break Luthor got told but finally helped out in the end? well he still stinks!

this one was like really good and I think the best Supes-flick yet! a solid 4 stars I think I'll make the jump from renting to buying which will be a first to those that say it should be longer I think there was more then enough super adventures crammed into this one and longer runtimes require much more investment to get into and for me personally the not longer the better