Fox Kids/Jetix & Saban Library - Missing on Disney+

[JulianRO]

Well, as I mentioned, Bobby's World was sold in 2004, so it was pretty much imposible to find the show by 2007.

I also noticed the list contains some newer live-action shows (Violetta, Soy Luna), but, for the moment, I consider the list being fake.

 

[modernponderer]

I hope the uploader doesn't get mean or something on me, but I think that the list is faked.

Of course I'll "get mean"... joking.

Honestly, not having proof since it wasn't archived was the main reason I didn't share this for years. But on my honour - or at least the fact-checking I've done for years in numerous other places before joining here (especially for one of the shows on the lists!) - I guarantee this is 100% authentic.

I personally saved these lists from a Google cache of the exact URL in the file in early 2019. The cache may have been from late 2018, but certainly not earlier (or later).

 

[JulianRO]

Back then the site was requesting you to log in when you tried to access it normally?

 

[modernponderer]

Back then the site was requesting you to log in when you tried to access it normally?

By the time I found it myself, it required a login yes. So most likely, it was briefly made public by mistake. Only Google's cache managed to get the info in time, for just long enough for me to save it.

 

[JulianRO]

And the list was really exactly the same one you did share?

I don't know but honestly...... it has a lot of flaws, and at how big is Disney, it seems quite unacceptable for them to do such flaws.

 

[GRPHX]

And the list was really exactly the same one you did share?

I don't know but honestly...... it has a lot of flaws, and at how big is Disney, it seems quite unacceptable for them to do such flaws.

Mega companies are actually much more prone to making mistakes than small or mid-scaled companies, considering their cumbersome structures and large corporate processes, because as the structure grows, organization becomes more difficult. For this reason, I think it is not absurd that the DMD catalogue also lists productions whose rights expired years before the date the list was taken. There may be residual rights or voice-acting rights from Saban for some shows for some countries and regions.

However, if this list is even has a slightest chance to be real or accurate without mistakes the argument that Disney is not aware of the BVS Library and therefore they are not on any Disney-branded streaming platform is weakened. The fact that this list is real (considering it was used in 2019 and 2022 Disney+ launches) means that Disney knew about these titles from the beginning but deliberately didn't use them. This makes many points clear to me, which makes Disney's discrimination against the BVS library a intentional act.

modernponderer is an active contributor to both Wikipedia and TvTropes, and has always contributed to Saban-related topics. In this case, I don't think he's lying.

However, I think this list has been overhauled with the productions coming from 20th Century Fox. It doesn't has any slihtest chance for productions like Twins of Destiny, Power Rangers, Digimon, Flint The Time Detective, Beetleborgs, Eerie Indiana, Goosebumps, Bobby's World, Gadegetinis, C.O.P.S., Angela Anaconda, OBAN, Captain Flamingo, Tutenstein, Sonic X, Shaman King, Mako Mermaids etc. still belongs to Disney.

Modernponderer, man I wish you had taken a snapshot with archive.org of the moment the site went public.

 

[JulianRO]

It can't be true as there are some shows missing.

considering their cumbersome structures and large corporate processes, because as the structure grows, organization becomes more difficult.

That's actually not a valid reason. Sure, you may expect some small grammar flaws from a small company, but from Disney who is huge, it's unacceptable.

 

[modernponderer]

I'm afraid I have to disagree about the accuracy of the lists. Based on the information gathered from other official sources - emphasis on official! - the lists are mostly, if not entirely, accurate.

There are so many urban legends, from questionable sources, about what Disney does or does not own which have been shown to be false. It is these myths which are incorrect, not the official lists.

Some specific examples which have been mentioned - for which Disney almost certainly HAS rights:

• Oban Star-Racers: the recent Blu-ray release came about because the show's creator only got back home media rights in English and French. For other dubs, he had to negotiate, and I think in one tweet even mentioned Disney specifically for this. He was also unable to release the US theme song, which is almost certainly part of the ABC music library (like the W.I.T.C.H. US theme).
• Gadget & the Gadgetinis: this show's credits include "ABC Family Properties, Inc." which means it is almost certainly still distributed by Disney specifically in the US, as there is no evidence of any such ABC show rights being sold. In other countries, it is less clear - are the rights exclusive?
• Most CinéGroupe series: this is of course the biggest one. For a long time, it was thought that the rights for these shows remained with CinéGroupe, and in fact I may be largely guilty of spreading this myth because I had mentioned CinéGroupe's ownership in Wikipedia articles on some of these series, lacking a better source of information than the company's defunct website. However, as its new site has made clear, for most of these shows CinéGroupe only has rights in Canada, while everywhere else ownership has generally passed to Disney (via various routes).
• Pueblo Films series: From CinéGroupe's site, there are sample episodes for What's with Andy? with the following first line in the description: "2D Animated Series / 26 half-hours and 52 more episodes available from Buena Vista / 8-12 year olds" Hence, both of the first two seasons of What's with Andy? are owned by Disney, as is The Kids from Room 402 - again, at least in the US.

To be clear: ALL of this information is completely independent of the file I posted, and ALL of it matches the lists there perfectly. However, in some cases it is not clear whether the lists only refer to US rights.

 

[JulianRO]

In other countries, it is less clear - are the rights exclusive?

WildBrain owns that show, actually.

But still, I'm curious what's now hidden behind that link. The same list you did post, maybe? =))

 

[GRPHX]

modernponderer, my friend The CineGroupe site was inaccessible for a long time and the only source we had was the H.G. Distribution catalog. However, the catalog did not specify which territory the rights were exclusive to. The mystery was solved when the CineGroupe site was re-launched.

We discussed it on that basis as well and corrected it.

CineGroupe/Ventura Film Distributors (Only global and/or USA rights except Canadian rights)
* Princess Sissi (season I-II),
* Wunschpunsch (season I-II)
* Jim Button (season I-II)
* The Tofus (season I-II - until 2078)
* Bad Dog (only in USA)
* What's with Andy (only 2nd season)
* Big Wolf on Campus (only 3rd season - will expire in 2025)
* The Kids from Room 402 (only USA rights)
* Pig City (For certain Central & Eastern Europe and MENA countries until 2024)
(We cannot say for sure about the titles whose rights belong to Pueblo Films A.G. There is a possibility that this company is a front company belonging to SABAN/BVS)

But unlike Ventura or SIP, we have no evidence that Pueblo Films A.G. as I said it before (the company that bought RTL's stake on SIP in 1996) was a subsidiary of BVS Entertainment/ABC Family Worldwide. That would mean that Disney does not own the global rights to "The Kids from Room 402" excluding the US, nor the first season rights to "What's with Andy." If you have evidence that Pueblo Films A.G. is one of Haim Saban's dormant companies, that would also mean that SIP was never semi-independent after 1996.
It also means that Disney was the sole owner of the studio from 2001 until it was shut down, but again, do you have any proof for that?

But that wasn't the only incorrect information on the Wiki. LTPHarry's claim that SIP gained independence from Saban during the FFW sale in 2001 and that BVS had no connection to SIP for years, instead Disney France bought the company's minority stake separately later, was also baseless and false, which he failed to cite. We were only able to fix this in early 2024 thanks to documents @JulianRO found in the French archives. Wikipedia was such a bad source that it couldn't even list Susie Q in list of Saban Entertainment productions.

OBAN's rightholder SAV! The World has already started a fundraiser to release BluRays of the series in multiple languages. My fellow OBAN fan @Igorov confirmed via private messaging that the rights have gone from Disney. Noam Kaniel's compositions and some of the voice-overs may still belong to Disney, but does that mean they have exclusive ownership of the production?

As for "The New Archies" and "Gadget and the Gadgetinis", those titles have already been added to the Wildbrain catalog. Again, these rights may apply to exclusive territories, theme songs, and voice-overs, but they do not appear to be possible in terms of intellectual property or exclusive ownership.

WildBrain - Library Catalogue

issuu.com

As for Power Rangers, Disney only owns those two titles, and they came with the 20th Century FOX takeover in 2019.

20th Century FOX (acquired in 2019)
* Power Rangers: The Movie (1995)
* Turbo: A Power Rangers Movie (1997)

Other PR titles have changed their owners twice, with Digimon already returning to Toei and Discotek Media.

Dude, you are always one of the biggest contributors to the BVS fan community and I am not saying that the list you shared is fake, but some of the titles contradict the situation.

 

[JulianRO]

If you have evidence that Pueblo Films A.G. is one of Haim Saban's dormant companies, that would also mean that SIP was never semi-independent after 1996.

It might be a connection between those two since its CEO also worked at Saban International N.V.
Proof here.

 

[GRPHX]

And that's not the only inconsistency in the list, in my opinion - the list also omits the Live-Action content and C&D library listed in the SEC filings.

Créativité et Développement
* Botts (La Vie Des Bote)
* La Lucarne d'Amilcar
* Diplodo
* Michel Vaillant - (Heroes On Hot Wheels)
(EXCEPT Mediawan Thematics-AB Productions owned titles and Conan the Adventurer, The New Adventures of He-Man, Magic Trolls and the Troll Warriors)

The ownership of the Michel Vaillant series has already been accepted by Disney, even by the company that owns the rights to the comics. I even discovered and read the document about it in the archives of the "Centre national du Cinéma et de l'Image animée", which states that SIP owns the rights. However, none of these productions are listed except Diplodo, and Twins of Destiny, whose rights have already passed to Mediawan/AB Productions, is on the list. This is quite a contradictory situation.

Marvel Productions/New World Animation
* All MARVEL Comics branded shows (EXCEPT 1967 HB's Fantastic Four and 1979 HB's The Thing)
* Robocop (1988)
* Dino Riders
* Rude Dog and the Dweebs
* Little Shop
* Kid'n Play
* Biker Mice from Mice (1993 version)
* Attack of the Killer Tomatoes
* Little Wizzards
* Muppet Babies (1984)
* Little Muppet Monsters
* Dungeons & Dragons (?) - (HASBRO may have some rights this one is unclear again)

Again, the "Marvel Productions'" productions I crossed out are not on the list, but according to the 1998 SEC document, there are a lot of Saban anime whose rights expired in the 2000s.

The "Addams Family" TV series (not movie) and "Breaker High", which have Canadian rights owned by Shavick but Disney's global rights, and Saban's only drama series "Sweet Valley High", which has all rights to Disney, are also not on this list. Considering the omissions, this list is quite problematic.

As I said, the list is problematic even in terms of listing non-Disney properties such as Mako Mermaids or My Babysitter's a Vampire, which were once exclusively distributed by Disney Channel. Similarly, it is interesting that Zodiak's Totally Spies (seasons 1-6), Team Galaxy and Monster Buster Club were deleted; these productions should have been listed as well considering that much of mistakes.

 

[GRPHX]

It might be a connection between those two since its CEO also worked at Saban International N.V.
Proof here.

The Bruno Hoefler connection does not tell us anything definitive about whether Pueblo Films A.G. is a subsidiary of BVS/Jetix Europe.

 

[JulianRO]

I know, that's why I mentioned that it might be something linked between those two.

 

[GRPHX]

I know, that's why I mentioned that it might be something linked between those two.

Such a connection does not make sense in terms of the global rights ownership of Whats with Andy and The Kids from Room 402.

Yes, when I looked at the list a little more, I saw that DIC's Super Mario Bros! series was also listed. The rights to this also reverted to DIC in 2006. This is also likely to be wrong.

Also Native Saban animations

* Nascar Racers
* The Secret Files of the Spy Dogs
* Iznogoud
* Monster Farm
* Creepy Crawlers
* Gulliver's Travels

Again, among the productions not on the list. However, these were distributed by DMD/Buena Vista for years. It is disgusting that a company of Disney's size would make such mistakes and deliberately not stream the catalog to Disney+.

C&D's King Arthur and the Knights of Justice was on the list but that one also owned by 41Entertainment and distributed by Invincible Entertainment with Saban's 1992 R-Rated B film Round Trip to Heaven

King Arthur | Invincible Entertainment

King Arthur, the animated series available to license exclusively from Invincible Entertainmant.

www.invincibleent.com

Round Trip to Heaven | Invincible Entertainment

Round Trip to Heaven movie available to license exclusively from Invincible Entertainmant.

www.invincibleent.com

How can they make so many mistakes? I wish an Insider would send us the current version of the list, which would include DMD's general entertainment titles. Sweet Valley would be more likely listed there.

 

[modernponderer]

Dude, you are always one of the biggest contributors to the BVS fan community and I am not saying that the list you shared is fake, but some of the titles contradict the situation.

With all due respect - I am well aware of most, if not all, of the information you mention in this post.

I actually co-created the SIP Animation article on Wikipedia with LTPHarry, and we discussed and used the best available info at that time. I don't think the article ever claimed that Disney France specifically bought 49% of SIP, just Disney in general. So the only error in this regard seems to have been omitting that the "sale" was actually part of the original sale of Saban, simply transferring the 49% stake to BVS.

Regarding Pueblo Films, as I was writing the previous post I realized the CinéGroupe site actually makes a three-way distinction between the Canadian, US, and international rights for What's with Andy? season 1 and The Kids from Room 402. So Pueblo Films may indeed be independent, but the American rights for both of these clearly belong to Disney based on multiple, independent, official sources.

My fellow OBAN fan @Igorov confirmed via private messaging that the rights have gone to Disney.

Do you mean that the rights are gone FROM Disney? If so, this seems to contradict not only the lists I posted but also multiple tweets by the show's creator during the lengthy preparation period for the Blu-ray release - which, by the way, already happened back in 2023. Also, as far as I'm aware, the US theme (again, much like for W.I.T.C.H.) has nothing to do with Noam Kaniel as it's a purely American composition... So your information for this show in particular definitely seems outdated and inaccurate.

Finally, with Gadget & the Gadgetinis I am of course aware it is a WildBrain property. This in no way contradicts Disney having distribution rights in the US. We don't even know for sure whether WildBrain has American distribution rights for the series - it could be similar to the CinéGroupe situation, split by region - but even if yes, Disney could still have non-exclusive rights, at least in the US if not elsewhere.

To summarize: while there is still some uncertainty about international rights, it is ~99% clear that Disney has American distribution rights for these, so could freely put them on Disney+ in the US today:

• Oban Star-Racers
• Gadget & the Gadgetinis
• What's with Andy? (both seasons 1 and 2)
• The Kids from Room 402
• Numerous other CinéGroupe properties

 

[JulianRO]

Also Native Saban animations

* Nascar Racers
* The Secret Files of the Spy Dogs
* Iznogoud
* Monster Farm
* Creepy Crawlers
* Gulliver's Travels

That's why, for the moment, I consider the list being fake. If it would have been true, these shows wouldn't have missed.

 

[GRPHX]

Saygısızlık etmek istemem ama, bu yazıda bahsettiğiniz bilgilerin çoğunun, hatta tamamının farkındayım.

Aslında Wikipedia'daki SIP Animation makalesini LTPHarry ile birlikte oluşturdum ve o zamanlar mevcut olan en iyi bilgileri tartıştık ve kullandık. Makalenin Disney France'ın SIP'in %49'unu özel olarak satın aldığını iddia ettiğini sanmıyorum, sadece genel olarak Disney'i satın aldığını. Dolayısıyla bu konudaki tek hata, "satışın" aslında Saban'ın orijinal satışının bir parçası olduğunu ve %49'luk hissenin BVS'ye devredildiğini göz ardı etmek gibi görünüyor.

Of course I don't blame you my friend and you can be sure that I won't take anything as rude. We are all trying to get to the truth here and if you want to know the truth I am very confused.

So I may seem a bit negative and angry. Also I would like to know your opinion on my last post. Do you have a version of this list that lists ABC/Touchstone and other general entertainment titles?

By the way how did you choose to ignore the detail that half of SIP was owned by BVS from 2018-2024 and consider it an independent studio?

I am actually angry and disappointed that I have to research these and care more about Disney's properties and rights than Disney. I just want Disney to release these. It's all simple. We don't have to do this or discuss it. I hate Disney executives and shareholders.

 

[John Pannozzi]

I am actually angry and disappointed that I have to research these and care more about Disney's properties and rights than Disney. I just want Disney to release these. It's all simple. We don't have to do this or discuss it. I hate Disney executives and shareholders.

Random thought: maybe some of us should buy Disney stock and see if we could convince them to do something with the Saban/Fox Family/etc. catalog. It probably wouldn't amount to much, but I'd like to point out that common folk can buy stock in publicly traded corporations.

 

[GRPHX]

Random thought: maybe some of us should buy Disney stock and see if we could convince them to do something with the Saban/Fox Family/etc. catalog. It probably wouldn't amount to much, but I'd like to point out that common folk can buy stock in publicly traded corporations.

Our wealth, my friend, is very limited. Do you believe that with these wealths we can buy TWDC stock and buy enough shares to influence decisions like the big players or billionaires?