Was the Mary Jane and Spider-Man marriage a mistake?

Was the Mary Jane and Spider-Man marriage a mistake?


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J'onn J'onzz

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One of the more controversial decisions by Marvel was to dissolve the marriage of Peter Parker and Mary Jane through a deal with Mephisto in One More Day. By bringing back Aunt May and nullifying Peter’s marriage, Marvel was able to restore Peter to his “classic” status quo. Many felt it was symptomatic of Marvel and DC’s refusal to let their characters grow.

In early Spider-Man comics set in high school, there is a love triangle between Betty, Liz, and Peter. When you factor in Flash Thompson and Ned Leeds it becomes more of a love pentagon. Betty is Peter’s girlfriend, but she is the secretary of Jameson and hates Spider-Man just like he does. Later stories show her to be a chronic cheater and hardly great marriage material, though I still love her character.

Gwen is the iconic lost love interest. Stan Lee seemed to favor her as Peter’s girlfriend over Mary Jane. Shortly after Gerry Conway took over Spider-Man, he killed off Gwen. Stan claims it happened when he was out of town and he was ignorant of it all. Gerry claims Stan knew all along. Gerry felt he had to kill Gwen because there was nowhere to go but marriage for the character, though Stan always found reasons to keep them apart, usually involving Captain Stacey and Gwen blaming her father’s death on Spider-Man. Very similar to how Betty blamed her brother’s death on Spider-Man.

It’s clear the early writers didn’t want Peter getting married. Stan did break ground by having Mr Fantastic marry Invisible Girl, but Reed Richards is clearly an older character. If not for the sliding timescale, he would probably be about as old as Jimmy Carter. He is known to have served in WWII and is seen in Sgt Fury comics. Stan Lee stated he developed grey temples during the war, and he is always shown with grey hair from his first appearance. Peter is introduced as a teen character, more the age of Human Torch than Mr. Fantastic. Johnny Storm and Peter Parker both end up getting married in the mid 80s, but their marriages end up being retconned away. Johnny married a Skrull pretending to be Ben’s old girlfriend Alicia Masters, while Peter married Mary Jane only to make a deal with the devil to reverse it.

Mary Jane is used regularly through around issue 200. The early portrayal is party girl go go dancer. There is a hilarious issue of Deadpool from the 90s where him and Blind Al impersonate Peter and Aunt May after time traveling to the 60s, and they comment on how MJ seems to be on drugs. She just shows up, puts on some psychedelic rock music, and starts dancing wherever she goes, even at Aunt May’s house. All of her early appearances show her being generally flirty and fun, but it isn’t really clear if Stan would ever hook her up permanently with Flash, Harry, or Peter. Gerry Conway felt there was a hidden depth to the character. After killing off Gwen, who Gerry thought Stan saw his own wife in, Gerry introduces a clone of Gwen. He then has Peter see off the Gwen clone to live her own life, while Peter goes to Mary Jane for comfort after the first traumatic clone saga. After Conway leaves the book, Len Wein has Mary Jane as a close friend and sometime girlfriend lf Peter, but there are also issues where she is dating Flash and Peter gets jealous. Still, MJ does care about Peter and often is caring for his Aunt when she falls ill.

When Marv Wolfman takes over the book, he decides to take things in a new direction. Peter is out at the Bugle and in at the Globe. Spider-Man finally is exonerated for the murders of Norman and Gwen. Peter graduates college and moves on to graduate school where he makes new friends. Part of this new life for Peter was going to be making a wife of MJ, but she shoots down his proposal, saying she’s not the kind of girl to get tied down with one man. After that, Betty gets a key to Peter’s apartment from Mrs. Muggins the landlady. Lonely Peter goes along with her suggestion of an affair. He takes her on a romantic cruise where Harry and Liz seem to want to hook Peter and MJ up, but MJ has a different guy, and looks amused that Peter is openly dating his married girlfriend.
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Betty and MJ sometimes hang out together at Peter’s apartment, and don’t seem to be on bad terms over him.
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Eventually Peter dumps Betty in a brutal and public way, after Ned Leeds returns from Europe and repeatedly beats him up to get his wife back. Flash, Harry and the rest are disgusted and they only see each other sparingly (like at the premiere of Star Trek the Movie, or when Aunt May “died”) for the next several years. MJ goes back to Florida with Aunt Anna for a few years. Harry moves to New Jersey and doesn’t invite Peter to the wedding with Liz.

Peter starts dating another married Secretary, this time Deb Whitman at grad school. She turns out to be crazy and hiding her past. He tells her she’s Spider-Man but it breaks her mind and she goes back to her hometown to resolve things with her husband.

After that, Black Cat is the next love interest. Unlike the others, where Spider-Man kept them apart, she loves Spider-Man but finds Peter disgusting. Obviously she is too mentally unstable as a former criminal who can’t accept his human side, so he could never really be married to Black Cat. There are many ups and downs in this relationship which dominates the runs of Roger Stern, Bill Mantlo, Al Milgrom, Peter David, and Tom DeFalco.

During this years long stretch of the 80s, MJ does return. Her first few appearances are in the Roger Stern run, but Roger viewed her as a spoiler to cause Peter drama. She returns in a story where Peter is making out with Amy Powell, rival photographer Lance Bannon’s girlfriend. Again, MJ looks more amused than jealous.
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There is little sense that she is willing to settle down with Peter, and seems content to be a friend. There are several scenes where their aunts, Harry and Liz, and Betty and Ned, try to set them up at dinners. All of these scenes are awkward and there is no spark. I am not sure where Roger planned for this to go, but he was so opposed to the marriage that he rejected an offer to come back to writing Spider-Man shortly after the marriage.

Tom DeFalco has MJ reveal she knows Peter’s secret identity, and has for years. This feels like a retcon since she often wondered why Peter was blowing her off when they dated in the 70s. It does however create a closeness he never had with Betty and Gwen. Still, this hardly makes her unique as he also told Deb Whitman and Black Cat. After the Black Cat relationship takes a snag because of her bad luck powers, Peter does gravitate towards Mary Jane more, but it is a competitive love triangle with the Black Cat involved up through the Gang War and the death of Ned Leeds.

Tom DeFalco had previously proposed a story where the marriage would almost happen but MJ leaves him alone at the altar. His artist partner Ron Frenz describes her as Peter’s best friend during their run. Most of their time together in the DeFalco run are scenes like MJ helping Peter repaint his apartment after a fire. They have a good bond, but it is nothing definitively romantic. During the turnover, this eventually becomes an actual marriage.

The marriage happens during the transition from the DeFalco/Owsley/Shooter era to the David Michelinie era. It apparently occurred because of an incident at a comics convention where Stan Lee asked the crowd if they wanted Peter and MJ to tie the knot, which received applause in the room. Jim Shooter felt obliged to go through with it, but unenthusiastic.

After the changeover, there are around a hundred issues by David Michelinie. Todd McFarlane redesigns Mary Jane into a sexy supermodel. While she was always pretty, we start seeing more cheesecake shots of her in the late 80s and early 90s. Her classic straight red hair starts looking more like poofy 80s hair. She spends much of the marriage worrying about Peter as he is always off fighting villains. This even drives her to smoke for a while, until a Bugle colleague of Peter’s dies of lung cancer. Soon after she quits smoking, she finds out she’s pregnant. She is poisoned, the child is seemingly dead, and stolen by Norman Osborn. Then Marvel has a plane crash that seems to kill her. Later they separate with MJ living apart from Peter. It seems like other than Michelinie and Conway, almost every writer tried to run away from the Peter and Mary Jane relationship.

I don’t mind the issues when they are together, but it just seems like one relationship among many for Peter. I think her initial rejection, and the plans for a second one, were indicative that most Marvel writers never really wrote them as destined to be together. Could it really have worked out when so few writers agreed with this portrayal of the characters?

Edit: I recommend the series by Brian Cronin on Mary Jane’s history:
 
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So much to unpack, but to give some reasons I've heard for the objection and why they might not hold water.

Some say it hurts the lower image Spider-Man has especially as MJ being a supermodel makes her wish fulfillment.

1. In the first place, supermodels can fall into obscurity and arguably the intent behind her status was a rise and fall moment with a good reason as to why she can't go back to it.

Plus for something she was absent from that tends to be the go to way to shut the marriage down to the point where say Byrne restored that job to her. I mean if she was truly a poor match for Peter then one could illustrate that without restoring her to said too glamorous job..

And I just look at the whole Peter/MJ thing as something that worked out cause of a one and a million shot narrative. She wasn't the intended endgame love interest, that was Gwen.

But it means that since they couldn't coast through on her being future wife thatthe had to have more character than a Silver Age love interest which meant she understandably became a desirable choice.

And even when the Clone Saga decided to go from using Ben as the young single Spider, to reverting regular Peter back to basics, they passed several opportunities up.

She wouldn't leave him despite the chance he was a genetic copy and more importantly as it is more grounded, didn't leave when their baby was apparently stillborn. That should have been the last attempt to end things.

Back to her in accessibility in a bit.

2. Yeah Peter being a loser only works if the recollection of Lee/Ditko/Romita's run is lacking in details.


Even factoring in the tone during the Ditko era you still had ASM #2 turning things around for him in the first story with a means to make money by photography, and both stories not having a more serious tone compared to the first two books.

Not even Aunt May expressing her disdain for Spider-Man and less hostility from Jonah.

ASM #3 has Peter regaining his confidence after losing to Dr. Octopus and defeating him with again an uplifting ending. Even a nice finish to #7 where he and Betty Brant share a moment together at the end.

Plenty of other moments and....

3. Well Betty Brant and Liz Allen being jealous over Mary Jane in Amazing Spider-Man #25. As in they think well of this loser too much.

Peter is suppose to be a hardluck guy yes, but fact is he did come out on top unironically more than some care to admit.

Even if not supermodel level, Gwen if you look at her from a cynical standpoint is still very much a wish fulfillment love interest.

And while Peter was in truth concerned over his hospital ridden Aunt, it was Gwen trying to pursue and get his attention. Again beauty queen of college trying to get the nerd to notice her. Doesn't sound like a loser guy to me.
 
My issue is mainly the marriage feels like it happens out of nowhere. Having the proposal be the issue after Hobgoblin dies, with no a new writer and no build up, is just jarring. In ASM 282 and SSM 123, MJ is implied to be the girlfriend of Alfredo, the Richard Fisk goon! Nothing ever really comes of this. I would be curious how DeFalco planned to build up a relationship between Peter and MJ during Gang War and after. The wedding was originally supposed to have been in issue 300, which would have given them more time to develop a romance between Peter and Mary Jane.


David Michelinie was initially against Spider-Man getting married, but decided to do his best to make it work. Shooter didn’t like Michelinie’s first plot for the wedding and rewrote it himself.

In his earlier Web of Spider-Man run, David Michelinie seemed like he was going to hook Peter up with Joy Mercado, who he traveled the world with for the Bugle’s Now Magazine. That run was too short for much to really come of, because he quit scripting the book halfway through the Ireland storyline after Marvel backed down to bomb threats and rewrote his story. Joy Mercado just disappeared when Michelinie left Amazing… but she was in the most recent Venom miniseries he did.

 
I was always a fan of the marriage, but that might be because they were married when I started reading the Spider Titles, and that lasted for years and years. Undoing the marriage was what made me ultimately stop reading the books, but that was also because of the regression Peter as a character went through.

Tom DeFalco had previously proposed a story where the marriage would almost happen but MJ leaves him alone at the altar. His artist partner Ron Frenz describes her as Peter’s best friend during their run. Most of their time together in the DeFalco run are scenes like MJ helping Peter repaint his apartment after a fire. They have a good bond, but it is nothing definitively romantic.

Frenz may say that, but it's debatable. I mean, yeah, they weren't explicitly together, and as your scans show, MJ was fine with Peter dating other women. But Mary Jane spent way too much time with him for them to be "just friends", especially since she is such a social butterfly. He'd be out at the Bugle or as Spider-Man, and Mary Jane would wait alone in his apartment for hours for him to come back. Part of his proposal was Peter basically saying "We never talked about it, but come on, this is a relationship." It wasn't until MJ's thing with her sister when she had to face the truth.

Behind the scenes, it seems like there was a lot of back and forth, but them becoming official felt natural.

Even if not supermodel level, Gwen if you look at her from a cynical standpoint is still very much a wish fulfillment love interest.

And while Peter was in truth concerned over his hospital ridden Aunt, it was Gwen trying to pursue and get his attention. Again beauty queen of college trying to get the nerd to notice her. Doesn't sound like a loser guy to me.

Very true about Gwen. She even was brought along to model for the Daily Bugle when they investigated the Savage Land.
 
I was always a fan of the marriage, but that might be because they were married when I started reading the Spider Titles, and that lasted for years and years. Undoing the marriage was what made me ultimately stop reading the books, but that was also because of the regression Peter as a character went through.



Frenz may say that, but it's debatable. I mean, yeah, they weren't explicitly together, and as your scans show, MJ was fine with Peter dating other women. But Mary Jane spent way too much time with him for them to be "just friends", especially since she is such a social butterfly. He'd be out at the Bugle or as Spider-Man, and Mary Jane would wait alone in his apartment for hours for him to come back. Part of his proposal was Peter basically saying "We never talked about it, but come on, this is a relationship." It wasn't until MJ's thing with her sister when she had to face the truth.

Behind the scenes, it seems like there was a lot of back and forth, but them becoming official felt natural.



Very true about Gwen. She even was brought along to model for the Daily Bugle when they investigated the Savage Land.
It’s interesting how the marriage managed to last 20 years. That’s very long for a comic marriage. Iris and Barry lasted less time at 13 years in the silver and bronze ages, and it’s thought of as a relatively ideal superhero marriage. Superman and Lois was also around 13 years, before Flashpoint and New 52. Aquaman and Mera were married for 13 years before DC killed off Aquababy, which led to the downfall of their marriage… 13 is an unlucky number for DC Comics marriages.

Hulk is pretty unique because they actually married his girlfriend off to his rival Talbot for a while in the Bronze Age… but that ends tragically. Betty Ross still ends up eventually marrying Bruce, much later on. How many superheroes marry a divorcee? That marriage lasts about 12-13 years too… and also has an editorially mandated miscarriage to prevent them from seeming too old.
 
So here's the thing, One thing keeps leaping out at me through that long history: Peter finds someone serious and some writer is like "No no, he'd have to get married!" and does something to torpedo it. Repeatedly. It's almost Sisyphean. As time goes on, the characters grow, there's this inevitability they keep fighting. It's the fact that if they keep trying out love interests, organically, the character who has perfect chemistry with Pete is going to pop up at some point. And if you kill THAT off, well....that's just bad storytelling.

I don't care how we got here, all I know is that Pete and MJ have better chemistry together than just about every other super-couple I can think of, and to pretend Spider-Man DOESN'T have an established mate at this point is willful ignorance. You can't change the fact that this is an appealing, fan-favorite relationship and everyone knows that, and any replacement love interest feels like a step down and a waste of time. Marvel can do all the retcons they want to their fake universe, but they would have to actually mind-wipe everybody on the planet to truly end this.
 
I haven’t really read many Spider-Man comics from after One More Day. Are any of the later girlfriends even popular? The only one I can recall hearing the name of is Carlie Cooper and I don’t know what she looks like or if fans like her. I know Mary Jane had a boyfriend named Paul that fans hated. I feel like none of them are even well known outside of comic fans.

All the early girlfriends I mentioned in the first post are fairly well known even if you’ve never picked up a comic book. Betty is in the 60s and 80s cartoons, and the Raimi movies. Mary Jane, Deb Whitman, and Black Cat are in the 90s cartoon. MJ is also in the Raimi movies. Gwen and Liz are in the Spectacular cartoon. Gwen is also in Spider-Man 3, ASM movies, Liz is in the MCU…
 
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I haven’t really read many Spider-Man comics from after One More Day. Are any of the later girlfriends even popular? The only one I can recall hearing the name of is Carlie Cooper and I don’t know what she looks like or if fans like her. I know Mary Jane had a boyfriend named Paul that fans hated. I feel like none of them are even well known outside of comic fans.

All the early girlfriends I mentioned in the first post are fairly well known even if you’ve never picked up a comic book. Betty is in the 60s and 80s cartoons, and the Raimi movies. Mary Jane, Deb Whitman, and Black Cat are in the 90s cartoon. MJ is also in the Raimi movies. Gwen and Liz are in the Spectacular cartoon. Gwen is also in Spider-Man 3, ASM movies, Liz is in the MCU…
And let's add the first appearance of Mary-Jane in the 1967-70 Spider-man cartoon episode "The Big Brainwasher" who's a mix of MJ and Gwen Stacy.
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And let's add the first appearance of Mary-Jane in the 1967-70 Spider-man cartoon episode "The Big Brainwasher" who's a mix of MJ and Gwen Stacy.
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Very strange!

I notice that in the 90s cartoon, they sorta fused Felicia Hardy with Gwen. There’s that early episode where Peter makes dates with both Felicia and Mary Jane, and blows them off to go be Spider-Man, then at the end they’re both mad at him. In the comics, they never would’ve had Felicia and Peter dating as their private selves, and that really limited their romance. Black Cat is such a flawed character I could never say she should marry Spider-Man. Is any church going to marry them in costume?! Plus how can he trust her after she worked with the Foreigner and the Kingpin?

It may sound weird to even bring up the prospect of them getting married, but Spectacular Spider-Man writer Bill Mantlo wanted them to have a kid out of wedlock! Jim Shooter vetoed it and said Marvel has morality clauses with companies like Underoos that their characters will not behave in a scandalous manner. Earlier Marvel editors in the wild 70s were a bit more lenient; Archie Goodwin let Bill Mantlo write issue 104 of Iron Man where Madame Masque and Iron Man are shown in bed together.

 

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