To rggkjg1: There is a mid credits ending scene. Not one after all the credits but one after the main actors listed credits. Like in say Avengers Age of Ultron. Also guess that means I'm the first one posting a review which as per usual is long and rambly and filled with spoilers but here it is regardless.
The Cartoon Network Justice League is one of the first cartoons I ever really got into that at the time it was airing had a passionate online fan base about it that provided info on the series and various details of the DC Universe related to it. I know I looked up things on like the Simpsons and South about plot details on various sites as well but with JL it was not just about the episodes but associated characters and ideas behind them. Since yeah I knew about the DC Universe just mostly through the cartoons at the time and it was only through this cartoon did I start really extending that. In fact one of those places that had a lot info on JL was this very site as yeah JL also came out the first year Toonzone got any traction. So they had various info sites about it and of course the forums discussing various episodes and various things they wanted to see about the characters and the world as it went on. And during the JL episode "The Enemy Below" I remember this post being made by a member after the episode aired.
originally posted by Ed Liu
Hey, would anybody else think a cameo by Amanda Waller of the Suicide Squad from the mid-90's be cool?
Which reading it just made me go ".... who is Amanda Waller and what is this Suicide Squad exactly?"
Yeah for the longest time I always thought it was silly how in the DC and even Marvel Universe you always let super villains just simply go to jail with how easily they could burst out as it seemed like prisons in those worlds was a revolving door where any sort of imposing villain could wind up breaking out. I got that heroes wouldn't commit murder but seemed weird the justice system would let these deranged psychos take who knows how many lives and not really do anything about it. So when I first read info about Suicide Squad, it seemed like someone else realized that and went "You know what? Let's actually do something with the whole jailing concept that actually makes the government look like it has an edge on these criminals." Since yeah the whole idea of Suicide Squad is pretty much gathering up some criminals and actually showing you can hold them for a rather long amount of time and then saying they could reduce their sentence doing specific jobs that would be off the books. It was a way to gain investment in the villains as they would be getting more focus and maybe depending on how it was used put them a bit more in the right and show some interesting shades of grey morality. It was a concept I did want to see them explore reading about it, and eventually the sequel series to Justice League, Justice League Unlimited had that one episode about it. You know "Task Force X" since they couldn't actually use the name of the actual squad in the title due to the restrictions of the cartoon... and due to the Bat Embargo couldn't have some of the most famous batman rogues in the squad like you've seen in other incarnations of them. Still the actual episode was good and it was a novel idea I'd be fine with seeing more of in other series... though something more on the side since I don't know how you could maintain that relationship or group dynamic for that long. I certainly never saw it being something DC would ever use as the focus for a movie let alone one so early in their run but yeah that wound up happening. Why?
1. The Squad's popularity especially putting in more well known DC villain characters like Harley Quinn has spiked a lot over the years even After Justice League Unlimited.
2. DC saw Guardians of the Galaxy and though "oh man we could do that" as their way of trying to not rip off Marvel but still in a sense ripping off Marvel.
I know that DC has declined this last thought several times and keep pointing out "there were script ideas for years" or "we always wanted to start off with a darker edge for our universe" but... yeah sorry between when this was announced to be made, the promotion of this movie, heck even where it was placed to premiere this year, it's pretty clear DC is trying to have their own GOTG type of success. Except the Guardians came out after Marvel had proved they had mastered their most major A list heroes they had access to, and could bring them together and wow everyone. Clearly DC hasn't been able to do the same, which honestly puts even more pressure on this movie then it did before. Granted Suicide Squad was always more of a hot button issue for DC due to not only being their third movie of this cinematic Universe and actually focusing on villains for the biggest title roles as the characters you're suppose to relate to, but how ambititious and large scale this project wound up being. Seriously isn't the production cost of this near Batman v Superman levels in terms of sheer amount of money? Certainly seems that way which is why DC perhaps even more then BvS needs this to be a big hit: as a way to tell audience "sorry for the follies but now we've got our groove and you can see what our movies can really do to wow you." There's been a lot of good word of mouth of the film before it dropped, and the fact that this is actually trying to keep it's plot more close to the vest and not reveal as much as the previous entry did is a good sign but does the idea that worked dropped as hints or part of a much larger having thousands of comic behind it first mythos or in an episode of already established good show translate to a movie I can really enjoy?
Well I can enjoy parts of it and there is good here but... this is massively massively flawed and I can see why critics are tearing this apart. And honestly the good of this movie is mostly in segments that should of first been in there own thing before being established here.
I think the biggest most prime contender of this is The Joker. The guy who even in the credits has like second billing next to Will Smith and was one of the film's big sells even when they first started promoting it in trailers last year. There was a lot of hype and talk about this performance and of how crazy Jared Leto went and of his radical redesign and how different he looks and people wondering what role he'll play and... quite honestly you could pretty much cut him out of the movie totally and it still would operate fine as he actually has a pretty limited role. Yeah we do see flash backs of how he first met up with Harley and how he corrupted her and then even changed her into the clown queen of crime but... it's very limited and honestly unless you're a fan of the source material there is no reason why you would buy Harley falling for this guy. "Mad Love" from the new Batman Adventures had a much better take of that plot and that flashback sequence was... 5 minutes long but you still got it far more then this movie's take. Which isn't to say the performance is bad. He acts fairly creepy and sinister but it's mostly to low level mobsters as his main role in the movie seems to pretty much be "I want to bring Harley Quinn back to me." On one hand I actually do like how this version of the Joker actually truly does like and want Harley as their crazies match one another and he does actually want to get her back but on the other hand... that's a lot of build up and skewed marketing for a supporting minor role. Thinking about it this is sort of the thing you'd see the reverse of there being a love interest woman who organizes all the forces to try and get the guy she has a thing with as we're following him while here we are following Harley but... yeah it just really makes me want to see more of their relationship. There are quite a few things cut from this movie as you can tell from the trailer but one thing I'd want to see back is the Harley Quinn and Joker relationship. As the scene of her helping him escape and then of Joker offering her to some mob boss whose taken aback and the two mocking him or trying to escape Batman (though Amanda keeps saying "she was more crazy then him" which is instantly not proven true with how they fall into the water so... way to narration fail movie) and getting her back the two times but it's really brief. Like ridiculously brief for again someone whose build as the second most important character. Harley has wayyyyyyyyyyyy more screentime and point in this movie then Joker does which is fine but it makes all the hype put into this performance really not fare well. Especially when the most menace the guy has feels like rushed through Heath Ledger joker bits. This is a different take but this is something that should of either been in more of the movie or just hinted at and not given the attention it was as it feels lacking in both ways.
And yeah that's a major problem with the movie: it has good character set ups and ideas but due to having to get to the "squad must join together to stop the Enchantress from ushering in a dark portal to destroy the world" plot doesn't have the time to really focus too much on the team. Compare this to Guardians of the Galaxy where after the first act and you saw them meet up in prison, there was a lot of time spent on the group's interaction busting out, getting to the Collector, gathering up for the fight against Ronan at the end etc. It really felt like you got to know them as a team and them as a hole. Here it takes longer to get all the crew together and there isn't too much time spent actually as a full group as much as it is various asides from some of the members. Sans the bar scene and I guess the ending fight you don't really see the group together as each is doing their own thing and honestly that means it doesn't feel like they gel. And since not much time is spent on the characters there's oddly a kind of hokey or forced feeling of some of there scenes. When Will Smith is playing the incredibly snarky and attitude jerky Deadshot he really does work and has a lot of charm that even if he is a villain makes you want to root for him. Like when he points at people who threaten to kill him or calls Amanda Waller icey but appreciating her style and gets on Rick's case for calling him a villain for what he works for. But then there are the moments that are him with his daughter and wanting to be a hero for her and those emotional bits that just don't hit due to not spending enough time to really care about the relationship. See Deadpool really did that well because there was a lottttttttt of time dedicated to Wade and Vanessa as a couple while here, Deadshot's daughter (I know she has a name but they didn't say it enough for me to remember me and I'm not looking it up to uh... prove that point I guess) has a couple of decent scenes with him especially the end of how he was trying to teach her math through shooting people but... it's not there enough to really feel that connection. Especially when she's one of those "oh don't be bad daddy don't kill people or do bad things aren't I so precious" performances. I guess at least the drama is better intgergrated then say Batman v Superman as Enchantress trying to mess with Deadshot at the end makes more sense for her character but there doesn't really feel like time for a connection. Same with El Diablo who gives his backstory and I know you're suppose to feel bad but sorry not enough time or connection is made and the guy doesn't sell it nearly enough for it to mesh. And really those are the only ones even with a story as Killer Croc and Captain Boomerang feel more like comedy relief who are there just to have more members who do thing. Killer Croc had a few good lines (that beautiful line he had really made the crowd laugh a lot more then I did but I like a few of his hard core disses like saying he lives underground) and I like how Captain Boomerang was sort of the joke who was shown to be easily owned by Flash (yeah he's in this movie for like... 5 seconds actually) and then kept being easily quitted or being rejected by Katana but eh... not really enough for me to be invested. Same with the thing with Katana whose scenes were good but again not enough time is spent with her to make an honest connection.
One thing the movie did spend a decent amount of time on was Enchantress who yeah turns out to be the big bad so... props on DC for not only having a movie starring a female character first but one that has a female villain as the main antagonist since there wasn't stupid executives going around blabbing about their not being good toy sales. Problem was Enchantress when you think about her plan and her design and goals... is pretty much Apocalypse from the latest X-Men movie: humanity screwed me over and didn't worship me as a god so I will take their world of technology and destroy it with my own to build a better one and the only ones I will spare are those who were spited who I can make bow to me. If they did anything with her brother character besides just have him turn into a hulking monster for El Diablo to kill himself on (yeah El Diablo dies in this movie. As does Slipknot who honestly appeared last anyway and only did one thing so... kind of a waste of that character) maybe there'd be something to connect to but it's pretty much empty honestly and you don't really get the connection. Granted I can buy her total disdain for Amanda Waller but there's a difference between that and "crazy witch who wants to off everyone due to being from the ancient world." She also doesn't really do much as a threat against our heroes: any of the goons were easily dispatched and the whole transforming soldiers into her soldiers doesn't go on long enough to be horrifying. Plus once she actually gets her heart back and is out of danger from Amanda she still doesn't kill her. Since really wouldn't she of been able to learn all the info about her just by transforming her like she did the others instead of letting her get locked up somewhere? If it was a painful sort of revenge I'd get that but that wasn't established properly. Also I really don't buy the relationship between June and Rick. That's something even with more screen time where the two just don't really click at all so you can't buy their love for one another. Plus how did June even come back after Enchantress's heart was destroyed if that connected the two? Just felt there to give the guy a happy ending I guess but didn't feel earned. And though the fight with the squad was cool (more on that later as that's more a part I liked) some parts of it did feel rather forced. You obviously knew Harley was going to lie to Enchantress just to attack her and even if you didn't her "you hurt my friends" line just felt really out of place and again sort of hokey which really sticks out in this sort of movie. Plus this sort of crisis honestly especially with how long it was going on does really feel like "how come we didn't see any of the main heroes" around. I mean we saw Flash earlier... and I guess he doesn't live in Metro City but shouldn't he of known or tried doing something about this at least? Or does he have to wait until being invited by Bruce Wayne to do something to actually majorly affect the story.
Speaking of story holes there were a few that really gnawed at me that took me out of the movie. Mostly the whole "after the day is saved we still have you locked up" bit. I will admit that is a very in character thing for Amanda Waller (who as one of my friends liked to call her back in the Justice League cartoon days, angry black lady) to do: yeah you saved the world but eh I still need you so you're going to follow me. And as stupid as it is I can buy that somehow she not only was able to escape from where Enchantress had her but still had good enough direction to find the Squad to threaten him. But my question is how did she get all the Squad back under watch? Especially when Harley Quinn was freed by the Joker's men destroying that neuro toxin in her blood stream that would of blown off her head. Couldn't someone of just said "shoot her Harley she can't kill you" and then boom Amanda's dead and they can all just leave as there wasn't really anyone else there and they could of just knocked out Rick Flagg if they didn't want to hurt him as yeah there's no reason they would be friendly with Waller. Seriously that felt like a major hole and again a major reason why having Joker in the present time of this story hurts it as I guess besides giving Harley motivation to want to save the world (since she thought Joker died and... really no one actually thought he died there right? Like at all? Seriously no one could of thought that) there isn't really a purpose of taking her away from the squad if she's just going to be back 5 minutes later and acting like it doesn't happen well that just makes more flaws in this story then it does fixes. Really I hope that's the "How It Should of Ended" scene: Harley shoots Waller and the Squad is at the villain bar with Deadshot talking about killing Batman. Since I can't be the only one to notice that huge lapse of logic. Also how come sometimes the government forces can easily shoot through these demon creatures but other times they can't as it's not like some of these demons were bullet proof otherwise Harley Deadshot and Captain Boomerang would have no real purpose here. Plus if the squad was already shooting through demons fairly easily why'd they give up just seeing that light sprout out of the tunnel? Just felt kind of like an excuse to have that down time scene without it being earned in the movie.
And again though I have this and other problems I don't hate this movie. Compared to BvS or Man of Steel there is a lot of character and charm and wit in this movie and there were some fairly amusing bits like how the squad members were wheeled out, Boomerang trying to offer deals to escape with the others, the squad having to constantly save Rick so he doesn't blow off their heads, and them enjoying their slightly better prision accomindations in the end. And I really liked Margot Robbie and Will Smith in this role. Harley at points came off as a bit annoying but honestly that is the character and it worked enough for me to get past that and really like all her moments and I like how active and smary and crazy they did really make her and honestly actually knowing this Joker does care for her at least gives you something to relate to. And again Deadshot at his best when he was being the gunslinger or the wise mouth was a blast and really I would want to see movies that focus on these two and give them more plot lines. And honestly though the trailer spoiled a lot of the fights they were still all pretty good and had a lot of good team moments of everyone getting to show off. Especially loved the effects of Katana slicing someone or Croc smashing them around. And the actual final battle with Enchantress was wayyyyyyyyyyyy better then Apocalypse. The fire fight with the brother El Diablo had was eh but everyone else trying to slice and shoot and rush around her while she teleported and blasted them was actually good. And honestly I don't think we've had a super hero team movie yet of all the team members at once trying to fight just one opponent. Even in Age of Ultron it was still one or two just rushing at the main ultron body while others fought his foot soliders while here it was a team vs one which worked. I also like the tease of the Justice League at the end if only for Bruce Wayne's bitter annoyance at Amanda Waller and getting a one up line better then hers. And honestly the music choices in this movie were all really good. You heard a lot of them in the trailers and though there isn't an expertly picked track like Star Trek Beyond the uses of "Don't Own Me" "Bohemian Rhapsody" "Without Me" and the ending track of Heathens were all good stuff.
Honestly this is an improvement over BvS since it's at least obvious there was charm and a lot of good ideas put into one movie that was intended to be one movie... but honestly there were still too much to fit the one movie and some of the better ideas like Joker and Harley or Deadshot's vendetta on Batman and skill didn't have as much time to shine as they really should of. Quite honestly this should of been a Harley and Deadshot team up movie focusing on the two's plot and back stories and converging and having to battle Amanda Waller or the Joker. As amusing as some of the other stuff is as a hole it doesn't have enough to warrant it and really this movie does feel like a broken disoriented mess held up by the strength of a good amount of the leads. If the leads don't work for you at all I can see why this movie is getting so much hate because it has massive problems. But it is at least a better film for DC to go out on then their supposed big epic clash and honestly if there is more with the Squad it probably would be better now that they're established. Shame their establishment film couldn't be as good as Guardians of the Galaxy or even Ant Man (as honestly a lot of Deadshot's scenes seem like Ant man but even though that movie wasn't the greatest to me it was at least one of the big things of that movie and given the proper amount of time to focus on compared to here) starting out but a lot better then how Superman started out. Even if it's still the second weakest super hero movie to me besides BvS. Honestly this is at least more ambititious and probably interesting and unique story wise then say X-Men Apocalypse but that had at least the lineage and continuity to justify it's set up and plot points more and felt honestly more consistent throughout then this did.
