"Justice League: The New Frontier" Feature Talkback (Spoilers)

[BonyT]

I don't know when I've gone into a DTV with higher expectations than I had for NF, based on such things as the fantastic nostalgic character designs and the fine trailer attached to The Batman's Season 4 DVDs. I really should have known better; that's always a trap, artificially inflating my expectations and making it virtually impossible for the film to measure up.

{LATER IN THE SAME POST!}

And I was blown away by the Batman: Gotham Knight sneak peak --- I'm now officially REALLY looking forward to that one. The animation is stunning, and I'm quite intrigued by the taste we got of what would seem to be six VERY distinct takes on Batman.

HAHAAA! It's like Lewis Black and his misfortune with trying Candy Corn!! I love it! Nah you're right though. It's a supurb and artistic idea.

Hey! C'mon now, Nightwing -- you're cherry-picking from my post! That's not fair!
If you look at the very next sentence in that same post of mine that you quoted from, you'll see that I myself joked about making the same mistake (in terms of artificially inflated expectations) with BGN that I had made with NF -- see?:

And I was blown away by the Batman: Gotham Knight sneak peak --- I'm now officially REALLY looking forward to that one. The animation is stunning, and I'm quite intrigued by the taste we got of what would seem to be six VERY distinct takes on Batman. Of course, I suppose I may just be setting myself up for disappointment, falling again into my NF error

 

[Wolf Boy2]

The Kid's Perspective on New Frontier

People on boards speculate a lot about the "kids opinion" and what kids will think about DC animation. So I wrote down what my 9-year old brothers had to say about New Frontier.

"You mean World War II has already happened?"
Well, the apple didn't fall too far from the tree. Just like me, they wanted to see a WWII themed movie. They were especially excited because of the Fliescher Superman design (the first Superman they ever saw on TV). They seemed to lose interest a little when they realized there would be no war or Nazis.

"Those airplanes look really good and they don't even wiggle."
So kids do appriciate good animation. His saying that they don't "wiggle" was a reference to the F-14s on GI Joe that often times looked rubbery.

"Hurry up and shoot him!" .... "About time."
In reference to Hal fighting the North Koran soldier. Ironic that the very children people seek to protect are bloodthirstier than the adults. I had to explain to them that it was nothing to laugh about (as they thought the blood was funny) and that Hal was not a wimp.

"She's got a red star too, she's a bad guy!"
He was joking. But it does make me wonder what the South Vietnamese would've thought about a superheroine wearing a red star ...

"I know it's supposed to be muscle, but this Wonder Woman looks fat."
I agree with my little brother on that. Why didn't Diana look as soft and feminine as in the book art? She was physically huge in the book, but not as hard and chunky as the movie showed.

"He didn't pay for the newspaper and the cop let him go?"
LOL. I didn't notice that at first, but he was right, J'onn didn't pay for the newspaper.

"It sure takes a long time to get to what they're gonna be."
I guess it seems longer to kids. But they said the same thing about Transformers (2007) and Batman Begins which were longer, so I don't think it's his attention span. Superhero movies can take too long to reveal the heroes.

"I liked the part with Flash and Victor Freeze best."
So they didn't know who Captain Cold was. Oh, well. It was still an awesome sequence.


"It's Commissioner Gordon!"
That was a REALLY good spot. They recognized Gordon's design from the first Batman comic (my DVD of Batman Begins came with a reprint of that famous issue). I myself didn't catch it. I still wasn't sure until Darwyn confirmed it in his commentary.

"Superman always dies .... geez."
On the heels of Superman: Doomsday, there DOES seem to be a trend of killing Superman. I understand the comic origins for both, but still.

"I like this Lois, she's pretty for a cartoon character."
I think it was the hairdo. Whatever, it was a good design.

"Why isn't Green Arrow talking?"
I do wish he could've gotten some characterization. But we can't have everything.

"He doesn't shrink in this movie?"
I was dissapointed that the Atom wasn't shown in costume also.

"What is that? I Don't know, but whatever it is, it's GREEN!"
The light shining when Hal was raptured away by Abin Sur's ring. No relevance, I just thought it was cute.

"I like Steel. Why didn't they show him? I'd at least have liked to seen HOW he died."
Again, I agree. Shame such a great character got reduced to a cameo. Still, better that than nothing. I love how they were able to work the whole story into the movie, even when it was just a brief reference or newspaper headline.

"Why weren't THOSE bad guys in the movie?"
They were talking about the DC montage at the end, and I have to agree with them. I would've rather seen DC villians than the Centre.

"I've seen this [drawing style] on Pokemon."
The "Batman: Gotham Knight" preview. Okay, so they're not yet well-versed in anime. They're 9 .... sue them.

"THAT'S Bruce Wayne?! That's the weirdest dumbest thing I've ever seen! He isn't a teenager!"
This started an argument. I thought the anime Bruce Wayne looked awesome as hell. My brothers just insisted that he is Bat-MAN and should look like a man. I reminded them that the DVD is set in "Batman Begins" continuity, and they reminded me that he was 30 in that movie (the numbers on the wall at the birthday party confirmed it). We agreed to dissagree.

"I like that Deadshot. That's gonna be the best part. Deadshot and Croc."
I have to agree. Deadshot does look cool, and I like the dark black shadows on the realistic designs in that segment.

"Will this have real gun sounds too?"
LOL. Even kids gripe about the censorship. They like the first GI Joe miniseries best because it had realistic gun sounds mixed with the lasers and one of them likes Gung-Ho because he had a conventional machine gun. When I was a kid, I don't remember giving a hoot whether a show had guns or lasers (in fact, I liked lasers better because I felt like they didn't kill anyone). But I was a lot more sensitive than my brothers are.

We watched Superman: Doomsday also, but my brothers really had nothing interesting to say about it. They wished GI Joe had been as realistic as the millitary scenes of SD, but that was it. One of them loves robots, so the Fortress Robot was his favorite part (As a matter of fact, I'm thinking about buying him a Fortress robot action figure). The other brother just commented, "I wish the people movie had been like that." ("people movie" is their term for live action).

It seems like the variety of heroes and action sequences of NF were more appealing to my brothers than the Superman-centric tragedy of SD. I was surprised, because I would've expected a kid to prefer the simpler plot and high action of SD.

Overall, they still prefer the Ultimate Avengers movies because of the WWII scenes ("Savage Time" is their favorite JL episode and the reason they got interested in WWII in the first place).

 

[A.J]

Spoiler

The book opens with the Losers (military group) stranded on Dinosaur Island. There is death, and someone leaping into a T-Rex with explosives. We see the last stand of Hourman, former JSA member as he is shot by police for being a vigilante. There's a running plot about John Henry, black man who becomes a masked hero and his tragic plight. The origin of the Challengers of the Unknown, regular men united by a tragedy that should have killed them. Um, lots more characterization for everyone. A LOT was removed for the DTV.

Is THAT it or did you nailed it down to the most important cuts?

 

[Sue]

Those are the big ones. There are plenty of details the movie omitted. But what you do see is faithful to the book; hell, a large chunk of the dialog is almost word-for-word. I suggest reading it. You won't be disappointed

 

[Nightwing]

Hey! C'mon now, Nightwing -- you're cherry-picking from my post! That's not fair!

I saw, but the first thing I thought of was Lewis Black's candy corn bit from one of his first specials and I just burst out laughing. Too bad if there's no Joker, but if you want Joker you can pretty much just watch those freaky demon looking things in DEATH NOTE. They look like him.

People on boards speculate a lot about the "kids opinion" and what kids will think about DC animation. So I wrote down what my 9-year old brothers had to say about New Frontier.....

And people have posted their young relatives' responses and it proves to be very interesting and is also very appreciated. Thanks WolfBoy.

LOL, aaaah kids. Well we of course forgive them for the lack of Batman/Superman knowledge bits, and overall your brothers are hilarious and adorable. (for how I picture my perfect Wonder Woman as she appears when she marries me, see my current avatar from Infinit Crisis #4)

I wonder if it's humanly possible to list all the things left out of the comic. I wouldn't ask anyone to do it. I would think it would be better if we each just picked up the comic. I'm certainly inclined to do so.

 

[Donomark]

Is THAT it or did you nailed it down to the most important cuts?

Like BT says, after Batman and Superman share their info, Batman really doesn't appear again until the epilogue.

In the original comic, Faraday was the shot who tried to shoot Flash.

Batman and "John Jones" meet on top of GCPD headquarters, not in the batcave. Gordon is with them.

The fight Barry Allen was watching was the real reason Iris, Hal, and Ace were in Vegas. It was a fight between Ted "Wildcat" Grant and Cassius Clay-renamed Cooke in the movie as an homage to the creator. The fight is shown a bit more.

The "crooner" character was not in the original book.

Bruce Wayne and Selina Kyle can be seen in the panning shot where Captain Cold is robbing the nightclub right before Barry arrives.

Originally in the opening sequence with Hal and Ace, Hal's knocked unconcious by ejecting out of his plane. Ace ejects and pulls Hal's zipcord for his parachute to open. Hal wakes up when he lands on the Korean guy.

Also, it's worth nothing that in the actual comic, when Hal kills the Korean solider, it's not nearly as violent as the movie portrayed it. I mean he still shoots him in the face, but no blood splashed on Hal's face. Obviously, they did that to sell the PG-13 rating. He's also saved by Lois Lane and Jimmy Olsen at the end of that scene.

Something that I noticed was weird. When J'onn watches TV and changes into the thins he sees, in the comic after the Indian he changes into the detective and immediatley decides to be a cop. In the movie those two scenes are split in two and put in different sequences with the Hal and Carol Ferris scene. Not a complaint, but I don't think it would have been diffcult to have them in the same order.

Slam Bradley smokes in every scene he's in.

Originally the news broadcast about the life and death of "John Henry" and the Flash's public retirement occured right after each other, but on different shows.

In the book, J'onn goes to the movies and watched an old Flecshier Superman cartoon. He arrives home where Batman surprises him.

The mission to Mars is completley different. Originally Hal pisses off Flagg to where Flagg fires him from the mission. Flagg heads to Mars with two other pilots and when the engine fails and attempt to rescue them is made by the Challengers of the UNKNOWN which includes Ace Morgan. Superman is called into action after fighting a mecha in Tokyo and ends up saving Ace and Red while Flagg and Karin die by sacrificing theirselves in the same manner as Flagg died in the movie.

Superman, Batman and Robin met outside of Gotham, not in the Batcave.

The Diana/Artimes scene WAS in the book, but is not as antagonistic as it was in the movie.

Hal tires out the ring a few times upon recieveing it.

Three seperate panels show Green Arrow, the Sea Devils and the Blackhawks responding to the threat.

A thid pilot named Nate Adams goes with Hal and Ace and sacrifices himself while in the center.

 

[Peter Svensson]

A thid pilot named Nate Adams goes with Hal and Ace and sacrifices himself while in the center.

Which is the New Frontier version of Captain Atom's origin.

 

[Rick Jones]

Was Oliver Queen hanging out in Vegas with Bruce Wayne in the book, or am I remembering wrong ?

Wasn't there a character design for Selina or Dinah (can't remember who) on the JL:NF preview ? Never noticed if they were actually shown in the movie.

 

[Peter Svensson]

Selina is still in the film, she's in the party in Vegas. Blink and you'll miss her.

 

[Wolf Boy2]

Was Bruce Wayne in the Vegas scene? I recall seing a man who could've been Bruce (my little brothers thought he was Bruce).

 

[Toddman]

Was Bruce Wayne in the Vegas scene? I recall seing a man who could've been Bruce (my little brothers thought he was Bruce).

He's there. In the extra feature for the making of NF (on the Doomsday disc) there's even a shot of the model sheet for his character from that scene.


Toddman

 

[ShadowStar]

He's there. In the extra feature for the making of NF (on the Doomsday disc) there's even a shot of the model sheet for his character from that scene.


Toddman

I'm disapponted that he and Selina did not speak in that scene, considering that we saw their character models beforehand.

 

[PeppeRaskell1]

Just finished watching this movie and reading the book for the first time, and I agree with most of you on a lot of things; mainly, yes, this movie wasn't long enough, and yes, the actor who did Batman's voice is no Kevin Conroy.

But I basically liked what I saw, and definitely worth a repeat viewing and another read.

One question about the "New Frontier" speech that ended the movie: Was that JFK actually speaking?

 

[Toddman]

One question about the "New Frontier" speech that ended the movie: Was that JFK actually speaking?

Er...ah, yes it was.




Toddman

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Finally saw this movie last thursday!!! - I have at this point only saw it once, so i feel i can't (and won't) put up a proper review of the movie until i get a good grasp, with some repeat viewing. Hopefully, this week or so space will help me. No doubt my comments here echo alot of what you guys have said.

• TOO SHORT - If this is the strict running time that Warner Bros allows...then be smart and don't try and pick two of the biggest stories at DC Comics (Superman: Doomsday included)

• Jeremy Sisto - didn't do it for me... yes, his voice sounds dark and cool... but it also sounds very monotone - for batman's short screentime, you need an actor to evoke at least something. In saying that... I would like to see him in the role again because maybe he would grow.

• Last point for now... does anybody feel that Darwyn Cooke's style would have benifitted form cel paintings as background rather than digital ones. I mean should this movie have adapted some of Batman:TAS' techniques???

 

[Alex Weitzman]

I don't really have the time nor energy to do a big review (BTW, I got the film when it came out; I didn't just see it), but it was as excellent as the original comic is. Which is high praise indeed.

****/****

 

[Wolf Boy2]

I don't really have the time nor energy to do a big review (BTW, I got the film when it came out; I didn't just see it), but it was as excellent as the original comic is. Which is high praise indeed.

****/****

LOL, when I saw your name I braced for a LONG, scholarly review.

You dissapointed me.

 

[Alex Weitzman]

LOL, when I saw your name I braced for a LONG, scholarly review.

You dissapointed me.

When I have some time, I'll tee one up.

 

[Crow]

I saw New Frontier today and I thought it was good. Now I haven't read the book but the DTV was relatively easy to follow, I got a kick out of seeing glimpses of characters like the BlackHawks/Arrow/Suicide Squad/etc involved in the thick of things, and I understand the 'we are Americans' vibe throughout the movie.

I wasn't too keen on the last part of Hal's arc, where he finally assumed the role of Green Lantern. It was a little underwhelming, and as has been mentioned, Superman's KO and the aftermath seemed repetitive. I was thinking it was probably what actually happened in Cooke's original story but it was because of the recent fascination with killing him off in every medium, I was left thinking 'can't wait to see what Superman does when he gets back' - the Aquaman appearance was not what I was expecting.

I thought Flash and J'onn were great, Wonderwoman was very well done, I liked the mini-arc Batman had too. Cooke's art is very nice, I was blown away by the beginning and ending montages.

The sound of the DTV gave the home theatre a good workout, the violent bits also sounded visceral too!

I'm not an American and on the 'overt' patriotism throughout New Frontier, I think it should be there if as the story goes Cooke wanted to meld the beginnings of the League with the evolution of America during that period.

As an outsider looking in, the politics of the (current) US is not that far removed from the movie 300's and it was good to see that it is the superheroes near the end of the movie who say (and show by example) that America and by extension the Western world (such as it was at that time) should aspire to be like their heroes and not rely on them in times of adversity.

 

[BlackCloud]

I liked the movie. Read the TBP, liked it. Saw, the movie, liked it, too.