Do suicides go to Hell?

Fone Bone said:
Actually SirLemming Scythe has a point and I'm glad he made it. I don't believe athiests or agnostics should feel uncomfortable about entering this thread.
I wasn't specifically addressing ScytheMantis. But I'm just worried what this thread could turn into if people who don't believe in Heaven & Hell start asserting that. I see more bad than good coming from it.
I mean, sure, I don't mind if people who don't actually believe in the stuff offer their insight on said beliefs if they know something about them, but other than that it could take us into an argument that's beside the point.
 
I also agree with Fone Bone

Fone Bone said:
Actually SirLemming Scythe has a point and I'm glad he made it. I don't believe athiests or agnostics should feel uncomfortable about entering this thread.

I think it is horribly cruel for people to tell families who lost a loved one to suicide that their loved one is burning in hell. In my opinion there should be a special place in hell reserved for people who are that callous and heartless.

Edit: So you know I was being snarky. Like I said before who goes to Hell is God's judgement alone and you or I have no say in the matter.
Another well thought out post that I totally agree with...Stuart
 
Why do you even want to think about something like that? Those people were tortured in life and now you want to know if they are tortured afterwords? Its just horrible.

As for me I don't believe in heaven or hell; so no they don't go to hell.
 
Demon_Child said:
Why do you even want to think about something like that? Those people were tortured in life and now you want to know if they are tortured afterwords? Its just horrible.
Well...I think we can't exactly be sure if those driven to commit suicide are really 'tortured'. Isn't it possible that they are just some horribly pessimistic people who can't handle short commings of any sort?

Besides, if someone holds a firm belief in the concept of heaven and hell, it is unlikely that they would even commit such an act in the first place.So noone in any family would have to deal with people telling them about their loved one being in hell.:shrug:
 
Psycho Fox said:
I agree, I also don't understand why people think that if there is a hell it is there for some sort of pointless eternal torture . Since we change over time, I would think all but the most thick headed sent to hell will eventully change. Thus there has to be more complexity to an afterlife system or you'd have innocents traped in hell that figured out their sins long ago making their torture pointless.
Yes, I personally I find it hard to believe that any human being, even Hitler, would really literally deserve an eternity of non-stop pain and anguish, and the idea of it being based exclusively on a person's beliefs is just too obviously fabricated to frighten people into adhering to biblical law, which may have been neccessary to maintain order in old times, but now we have a little thing called government.

If hell exists it is either temporary, unintended for human souls, or it just plain isn't all that horrible. The biggest fault is the idea of people enjoying themselves in heaven kowing that the ones they love could be writhing in agony somewhere. Heaven couldn't be pure or perfect if its inhabitants are that heartless, yet it can't be pure or perfect if they're sad about it either. It just doesn't work.
 
Scythemantis said:
If hell exists it is either temporary, unintended for human souls, or it just plain isn't all that horrible. The biggest fault is the idea of people enjoying themselves in heaven kowing that the ones they love could be writhing in agony somewhere. Heaven couldn't be pure or perfect if its inhabitants are that heartless, yet it can't be pure or perfect if they're sad about it either. It just doesn't work.
Heaven is a place without sin. Sadness, however, is not a sin.
An interesting passage in Revelations says that in Heaven "God will wipe away every tear from their eyes". As my pastor pointed out, how can God wipe away tears if nobody's crying?
 
SirLemming said:
An interesting passage in Revelations says that in Heaven "God will wipe away every tear from their eyes". As my pastor pointed out, how can God wipe away tears if nobody's crying?
"And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away." - Revelation 21:4
 
God...This thread is a real buzz kill. T_T

I don't believe people who have commited suicide go to hell. I've had two very dear friends commit suicide and both were good men. One of them had actually saved 4 peoples lives once when he was the first to come upon their car wreck. I find it hard to believe that some supreme being would punish either of them for their final act.

I have had a number of "good christians" tell me that Jeremy and Daniel are burning in hell for their transgression... Only people who have been in this same situation can even begin to fathom how angry that made me and how much it hurt me.


anyway I'm gonna go lay in the corner now... =[
 
My mother tried to kill herself a couple of years back because she suffers from a very painful disease. I'm lucky that she survived, and I don't believe in hell, but if she'd succeeded and someone tried to tell me she was 'burning for all eternity' I'd have to get very, very violent. :mad:
 
Phantasm said:
Well...I think we can't exactly be sure if those driven to commit suicide are really 'tortured'. Isn't it possible that they are just some horribly pessimistic people who can't handle short commings of any sort?

Besides, if someone holds a firm belief in the concept of heaven and hell, it is unlikely that they would even commit such an act in the first place.So noone in any family would have to deal with people telling them about their loved one being in hell.:shrug:
This is a VERY interesting post because it proves that you can't know what someone else is thinking. Even if you try to put yourself in someeone else's shoes you really can't. I have schizo-effective (A combination of Schizophrenia and Bi-Polar) and as hard as my therapists, councilers and DMH workers try to understand what I'm going through they really can't because they aren't suffering from it.

I was in a state hospital for four years. I don't fear hell in part because of how horrible it was. I still have nightmares though I've been out for five years. While in what me and my friend Rob lovingly call "The Bin" I knew a guy named Keith. Keith was super-nice and defended me when one of the scary patients was giving me a hard time. My friend Michelle who I met in there and am still friends with was best friends with Keith.

One night Keith escaped. He was found the next day on the hospital grounds soccer field. He had hung himself. He was gone. Dead. Michelle was devastated.

And you know what? I had been going through a similar thing. I wasn't as depressesd as he was but I knew why he did it. When you are in a state hospital you lose the will to live. You can't ever imagine getting out of it and you become despondent and hopeless. I had felt for a long while that the only way I was getting out of there was in a box.

I didn't kill myself. Michelle didn't kill herself. Keith did. And if anyone tells me he went to hell because of a chemical inbalance in his brain partnered with unbearable living conditions I will tell them to shove it. They don't know what it was like. They never will. If Christianity gives people comfort about what lies beyond this life that's fine but it isn't an excuse to be judgemental and to pretend they have a grasp on something they will never understand.
 
Phantasm said:
Well...I think we can't exactly be sure if those driven to commit suicide are really 'tortured'. Isn't it possible that they are just some horribly pessimistic people who can't handle short commings of any sort?
Maybe a few, but that's not the case behind the vast majority of suicides. I think there are a few here who really don't understand the complex medical and pyschological nature of sucide.

I didn't plan on entering this thread, because I'm not one who believes in hell, and I pretty much agree with what Sir Lemming says about who should be contributing to this particular discussion. But it's hard for me to hear repeatedly (both here and elsewhere) that those who commit suicide are selfish, weak-minded people. In some cases that's true, but overall that's a grave misinterpretation of a very serious issue.

I think I'll leave my thoughts at that.
 
Phantasm said:
According to my beliefs yes. God gave us life, ONLY he has the right to take it away.We aren't the ones to decide when we should move onto the next life.
But isn't that questionable, I mean really even if God exists a man who by accident falls of a cliff is not killed by God but by physics. The thing is it was God who created physics and it was God who lead that man there, if God really was planning to end this man's life. So could it not be said that suicide is just like physics, you may kill yourself but it could still be part of God's plan.

Besides, if someone holds a firm belief in the concept of heaven and hell, it is unlikely that they would even commit such an act in the first place.So noone in any family would have to deal with people telling them about their loved one being in hell.:shrug:
People kill others all the time, but they have a pretty firm belief in the justice system. I know you can find a flaw in my logic but the fact is people do lots of things knowing the consequences.

Anyway discussion of Hell and killing yourself is not complete without.
To be, or not to be: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to, 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub;
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause: there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life;
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of despised love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscover'd country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all;
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry,
 
Has anyone here read Graham Greene's novel The Heart of the Matter? The climax of the story turns pretty much on this issue.

The main character, Scobie, is a Catholic military policeman stationed in west Africa during World War II. He is, not to put too fine a point on it, a guilt-ridden wreck, even though he has nothing particular to feel guilt-ridden about. Mostly he's just deeply conscious of all the ways he's failed his wife, his friends, his colleagues, and the people who, as a policeman, he's supposed to protect. After taking a bribe (he needs the money to send his wife on a much-needed vacation) he winds up having an affair, and he just goes to pieces and decides to kill himself.

It's a bleak decision: He decides to do it not just to get himself out of the lives of those he think he has ruined; he chooses to kill himself because he knows it will damn him, and he feels he has disappointed God most of all. He wants to kill himself because he wants to spare God any further pain.

The novel reaches its wrenching climax when Scobie, as he prepares the fatal tablets, actually hears (or, okay, thinks he hears) God pleading with him not to go through with it: "You say love me, and yet you'll do this to me--rob me of you forever. ... So long as you live, I have hope. There's no human hopelessness like the hopelessness of God. Can't you just go on, as you are doing now?" But he pushes the voice away.

At the end, after he's killed himself, though, Greene gives it a brilliant twist. Scobie's wife observes that her late husband was a "bad Catholic." This irritates her priest: "Are you so bitter against him?" "I haven't any bitterness left." "And do you think God's likely to be more bitter than a woman?" This doesn't necessarily reverse matters, of course; Greene never comes out and says anything about the final disposition of Scobie's soul. But it's a reminder that behind all the "rules" of theology is the figure of God. It's not the "rules" that are important. It's God.

A lot of people think that God uses the rules the way a policeman uses the law, or an exclusive club uses its charter: He does everything he can to put people in jail, or to keep them out of heaven. Others think getting into heaven is like getting a credit card: if your "rating" is good enough, you'll get an unsolicited offer in the mail. On Greene's view, as far as I can tell, it's much more like getting married, with God as the psycho girl who wants you to propose and will play any dirty trick that's ever been invented to get you to pop the question. It matters less what is in the rulebook than what is in the heart--but that doesn't mean than you yourself know what is in your heart, so complacency isn't really an option.

I don't know what the correct answer is, of course. I just thought I'd toss out a complicating story.
 
This kind of talk like has always amused me so like if I am so unhappy with my life and I very miserable like killing myself would only send me to hell? What if I was in great pain and just living was hell in itself? Huh? I dunno like that just does not make any sense to me.
 
BLACKHEART said:
This kind of talk like has always amused me so like if I am so unhappy with my life and I very miserable like killing myself would only send me to hell? What if I was in great pain and just living was hell in itself? Huh? I dunno like that just does not make any sense to me.
Well the point is Hell would be worse and there'd be no escape from that...

Anyhow, I don't think suicides automatically go to hell. I'll just leave it at that.
 
Since this idea is still being discussed.....

Shnay said:
Maybe a few, but that's not the case behind the vast majority of suicides. I think there are a few here who really don't understand the complex medical and pyschological nature of sucide.

I didn't plan on entering this thread, because I'm not one who believes in hell, and I pretty much agree with what Sir Lemming says about who should be contributing to this particular discussion. But it's hard for me to hear repeatedly (both here and elsewhere) that those who commit suicide are selfish, weak-minded people. In some cases that's true, but overall that's a grave misinterpretation of a very serious issue.

I think I'll leave my thoughts at that.
I agree with Shnay completely...as he said those who commit suicide are said to be "weak, selfish, and weakminded people...That is not true, and only in a very small percentage, "might'' it be true..I'll end it this way..One man who did it, that I knew, went to one of the leading hopitals in the Chicago Area, begged the attending Psychiatric resident, to admit him,my friend was in very bad shape...The attending psychiatric resident, who he knew, refused...He was gone in 36 hours. He did what was right, he asked for help, but the hospital refused...That my friends is the truth about suicide...The people are sick, just as a heart patient is sick..They need help, sometimes even ask, but help is much less available now, then it was 20 years ago when this happened..It is a terrible illness, that strikes many. and is very sad...Let's let this one go. Thanks. Stuart:sweat:
 

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