jl/jlu = hawkgirl/shayera overkill show

[Aldrius]

Honestly, does Wally even really NEED to develop? He doesn't have any glaring flaws really... other than his arrogance, and even that's not that bad. =S

 

[pixellj]

Ya sorry, I noted Flash just as a contrast in opinion with respect to HG is all. By overdone, I meant they overdid the one trick pony thing. But you're right in development, he was underdone.

And again I agree, Hawkgirl is nice .

 

[S.C.B]

Honestly, does Wally even really NEED to develop? He doesn't have any glaring flaws really... other than his arrogance, and even that's not that bad. =S

Well, it's less the fact that he didn't develop, but more that we just didn't see it. The first time we see Flash in Central City ('The Brave and the Bold'), you get the feeling the people don't think anything more of him than the League does. He's cocky and impulsive and, as mentioned, screws up in fights alot.

But then in 'Flash and Substance', he's suddenly got a great rapport with the people of his city and survives three attempts on his life without once tripping up on small rocks and the like. It's not that I didn't enjoy seeing this change in Flash (it was nice to see him being a capable superhero), I just would have liked it to be more gradual (and on screen).

 

[comics360]

When JL started, I said, "HawkGIRL? HUH?? No HAWKMAN??? What do they Think they're doing????"

By the end of JLU, Hawkgirl was my favorite character.

First of all:

1. They needed more strong female characters. JL was too much of a "Boy's Club" already, and they needed to get some girls watching it along with the predomedently male fanboys.
2. Hawkgirl is, compared to the others, basically a "blank slate" without much backstory at that point in DC history. If you do Hawkman, which one do you do? Carter Hall? Katar Hol? etc? (This is the same problem you have with Aquaman) The only baggage Hawkgirl carries is her previous association with Hawkman... Due to this, Shayra becomes the best developed and most interesting character in the series.

 

[Temple Fugate]

excuse me but im the one being attacked not the other way around.

I said "MOST" of the people responding to you aren't being rude. You're just concentrating on the specific people who may or may not have meant to be rude.

some guy even said i make no sense,

If you calmed down a little bit, you would make more sense.

another one sarcastically commented abt mm being psychic,

I'll give you that one. If that poster hadn't used a question mark at the end of the sentence it would not have been sarcasm.

u told me not to use shortcuts w/c was very condescending,

There's a difference between constructive criticism and condescending. I was offering you a way to sound more convincing. You say you're not here to convince anyone. That's perfectly fine. But then you shouldn't be surprised when you jump in here and declare that certain characters should have been killed off just because you didn't like them. You're pushing people's buttons, and that's dangerous.

one guy said i watched the show with sunglasses on, etc.............

That was a metaphor. Not an insult.

Respect has to go both ways. Some of us are trying to respect you, but you're not respecting us. You just keep responding with messages like "I'm being attacked! This board is rude!" Take a step back, read over this thread again and take the perspective of a Hawkgirl fan. How would you feel if you were in the opposite side's shoes and someone boldly declares that they want your favorite character killed off?

---

I never felt that Flash was overused. Some of my favorite episodes are Flash episodes. (But then again, we had "Eclipsed." ) I actually wish we had seen a few more stories with Flash and GL paired up. S.C.B has a point about how the Flash's hometown popularity kind of showed up out of nowhere. People who don't read the comics to know of his celebrity status probably got the shaft on that one. Although we saw a little hint of it in "Comfort and Joy" with Flash at the Central City Orphanage.

 

[Wolf Boy2]

i wouldnt be surprised if someone insulted my race.

Uh, mmm right..... 'cause you've got a picture of yourself on here that shows us all what your race is....


Hey, I know! I'll just insult all the races! Sure to get you that way.

A white guy, a black guy, an oriental guy, a native American guy, a Pacific Islander, a Jew, an Aborignal, an Eskimo and a Klingon walk into a bar....

 

[Justice League 2000]

Too me Hawkgirl did not kill the show.

 

[SuperBat]

Wow, this place is getting hostile.

u can keep insisting that it was fitting for sha to pull him out, but for me it was and still is ridiculous.

Here's the thing. You may not like Shayera, but the fact remains that she is one of the founding seven members of the League. Superman and Batman had an obvious role to play in "Panic in the Sky" and "Divided We Fall," as a two-parter. The rest needed their "moment" to shine, as this was meant to be the end.

J'onn was the one to free the League from Brainiac's hold; Diana destroyed Brainiac's skyscraper/weapon; Green Lantern rarely needs a reason to stand out, as he is typically doing more in a fight than anyone; and Flash had the obvious spotlight in the climax. This leaves Shayera. She was given one or two swings in the Brainiac fight, but it was her retrieval of Flash that made her stand out. Moreover, two characters develop a relationship through moments of interaction. How can they interact if they don't get a chance to support one another? If Shayera had as little to do with Flash as you think she did, this was her chance to bond with him.

The same can be said of the exchange you hated. This was meant to be GL and Shayera's last appearance, so it served as a sort of farewell to them and their relationship, especially knowing (thanks to Warhawk) that they end up together anyway. So it was their last chance to exchange. It was appropriate for the moment, just as Flash and GL's exchange in "Destroyer" was.

And I don't believe Aldrius was being sarcastic. The reason J'onn knew Flash was alive is because he could sense his mental presence. The Speed Force is not a psychic realm; Shayera reached into some kind of dimensional tear to pull him out.

Of course JL could have existed without hawkgirl. As long as the big 3: Supes Bats and WW are there then the rest are basically supporting players.

That's a bit of an overstatement. If I were going to say something like that, I would toss Diana into the supporting cast and make the remark about Superman and Batman. But, no, the show could not have existed without the others. Yes, Shayera's role could've been written around any heroine, but Flash could've been Booster Gold as well.

divided we fall should've really been about supes, bats, ww, flash (since he was barely used in jlu 1 and 2) and mm (since he was stuck in the watchtower giving orders and only fought the annihilator).

In other words, leave out GL and Shayera. Clever.

I can't say much to disagree with anyone else, because I don't. Akomoron, please don't think you're being attacked. Just read the thread over and try to remember who's who. No one likes to be grouped together as "this message board." Like I said, you're being too critical of it, and of the people here.

Now I'll say goodbye, before someone closes this thread.

Too me Hawkgirl did not kill the show.

Nice post. Simple, polite, and to-the-point.

 

[akomoron]

whatever superbat. i'll agree to disagree since this mb is obviously pro-gl/shayera, even if u guys are wrong. anyway.............

 

[akomoron]

oriental? not surprised u used the term considering how viriginia is. i mean I did watch borat...........................

 

[akomoron]

Uh, mmm right..... 'cause you've got a picture of yourself on here that shows us all what your race is....


Hey, I know! I'll just insult all the races! Sure to get you that way.

A white guy, a black guy, an oriental guy, a native American guy, a Pacific Islander, a Jew, an Aborignal, an Eskimo and a Klingon walk into a bar....

oriental? wow well im not surprised considering where u are from. i mean i did watch borat...................

 

[Bishop]

whatever superbat. i'll agree to disagree since this mb is obviously pro-gl/shayera, even if u guys are wrong. anyway.............

SuperBat gave you a well thought-out response and you reply with this nonsense. As far as I'm concerned, you aren't worthy of any more constructive replies. Do us a favor and check your attitude, spelling and grammar and then come back with something constructive.

 

[Wolf Boy2]

oriental? wow well im not surprised considering where u are from. i mean i did watch borat...................

Borat? I don't get that.

However if you are in anyway insulting Virginians I am gonna be mad! I just might... uh ... uh ... crap, I can't do anything.

Maybe you should watch Seseme Street. It's more your speed ... and no Shayera.

 

[akomoron]

Borat? I don't get that.

However if you are in anyway insulting Virginians I am gonna be mad! I just might... uh ... uh ... crap, I can't do anything.

Maybe you should watch Seseme Street. It's more your speed ... and no Shayera.

watch the rodeo scene then you'll understand. and oriental is a very derogatory term hence the tie in with borat. we dont get sesame street here anymore i think but anything without shayera is an improvement.............

 

[Aldrius]

...Oriental is derogatory? Since when?

 

[Sue]

When I began watching JL, I didn't know who Hawkgirl was, and by its end, she was my favorite. Anytime a sidekick/partner comes into their own is a good thing, so I'm grateful she had that exposure. The same goes for John (though he had a little more in print).

 

[Wolf Boy2]

Actually, akomoron is right. Sort of.

My white, soda cracker self learns something every day.

From http://www.dictionary.com:

Usage Note: Asian is now strongly preferred in place of Oriental for persons native to Asia or descended from an Asian people. The usual objection to Oriental—meaning "eastern"—is that it identifies Asian countries and peoples in terms of their location relative to Europe. However, this objection is not generally made of other Eurocentric terms such as Near and Middle Eastern. The real problem with Oriental is more likely its connotations stemming from an earlier era when Europeans viewed the regions east of the Mediterranean as exotic lands full of romance and intrigue, the home of despotic empires and inscrutable customs. At the least these associations can give Oriental a dated feel, and as a noun in contemporary contexts (as in the first Oriental to be elected from the district) it is now widely taken to be offensive. However, Oriental should not be thought of as an ethnic slur to be avoided in all situations. As with Asiatic, its use other than as an ethnonym, in phrases such as Oriental cuisine or Oriental medicine, is not usually considered objectionable.
​

 

[S.C.B]

whatever superbat. i'll agree to disagree since this mb is obviously pro-gl/shayera, even if u guys are wrong.

Whoa, whoa, hold up. We disagree with you and we're wrong? And you were getting upset because we were supposedly insulting you?

If you seriously hate Shayera that much, then just don't watch JL or JLU. Watch B:TAS, TNBA, S:TAS or BB.

 

[akomoron]

Whoa, whoa, hold up. We disagree with you and we're wrong? And you were getting upset because we were supposedly insulting you?

If you seriously hate Shayera that much, then just don't watch JL or JLU. Watch B:TAS, TNBA, S:TAS or BB.

no what i meant was yes we all can agree to disagree but i still find my opinion to be valid. your disagreement doesnt change my mind is what i meant. does that clarify things?

as for jl/jlu its been over here for years. they just replay it on different local and cable channels. its still not done in merry old england? wow u guys are way behind.

 

[James]

no what i meant was yes we all can agree to disagree but i still find my opinion to be valid. your disagreement doesnt change my mind is what i meant. does that clarify things?

as for jl/jlu its been over here for years. they just replay it on different local and cable channels. its still not done in merry old england? wow u guys are way behind.

Okay, I've had enough of this and this sort of passive hostility that you have Akomoron. He never said England didn't have JL and JLU. We've had them for ages as well. In fact, we got episodes before the US on the JLU front as I recall.

Warnings will be winging their way unless you start being a little less reactive. You can't spout the right to opinion and then side remark that the others are wrong - that's just a sort of patronizing arrogance that will just ignite threads and ruin this board. The staff will not tolerate it.

As for "oriental", I'm happily educated. However this isn't sort of hick thing, I'm an educated liberal English man, and I'd never realised it could be potentially be considered outdated.

Okay, being this is still a debatable issue, I'll leave the thread open a little longer, but if it gets antagonistic again, we'll be locking it and speaking to any members involved in negative posting privately.

Thank you.