"The Matrix Reloaded" Talkback (Spoilers)

Rate "Reloaded" & Post Your Comments!

  • *****

    Votes: 25 28.7%
  • ****1/2

    Votes: 23 26.4%
  • ****

    Votes: 20 23.0%
  • ***1/2

    Votes: 6 6.9%
  • ***

    Votes: 5 5.7%
  • **1/2

    Votes: 1 1.1%
  • **

    Votes: 4 4.6%
  • *1/2

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • *

    Votes: 1 1.1%
  • 1/2

    Votes: 2 2.3%

  • Total voters
    87
DarkAngel said:
The Architect was talking about Neo's code being reincorporated, but Neo's human. I guess he was just talking about the coding of Neo's avatar?

He was speaking of Neo's consciousness, actually. A human consciousness, yes, but still an altered consciousness. By the very fact that the machines could build the Matrix in the first place, I'm sure they can extract the code they need from Neo's mind.

So why not just forcibly extract it from his mind and be done with things? Simple, the processing of code in the Matrix directly corresponds to the mechanics of the virtual world. To be of any use, the code has to go to the Source, and that means Neo going there himself, within the virtual constructs of the Matrix.

Also, there doesn't seem to be such a thing as a distinct "avatar", seperate from a "user", in the Matrix. A person's physical appearance in the Matrix instead seems to be the product of that person's mental image of themselves.

And did the previous versions of The One look like Neo? When he was talking with the Architect, I wasn't sure if the images on the screens represented Neo's thoughts, past versions of The One, or both. Since the machines control the process in which they "grow" humans, they should be able to create two humans that look the same, right? Maybe?

No way to tell what previous incarnations of The One looked like, at the moment.

However, I can say for sure that the images on the screens did not represent other incarnations of The One, by simple deduction. There were far more different images than there were previous "Ones". So it's safe to assume that the images represented all the possible reactions of Neo in the present.

As an interesting note, those monitors actually appeared in the first movie... See if you can find them. ;-)

--Romey
 
Romey said:
However, I can say for sure that the images on the screens did not represent other incarnations of The One, by simple deduction. There were far more different images than there were previous "Ones". So it's safe to assume that the images represented all the possible reactions of Neo in the present.
There were many more images, but each one need not be from a separate individual. They could have just been showing the different reactions of the previous Ones over the course of their conversations with the Architect. For instance, maybe 15 of the screens were showing various reactions from the first One. But you're probably right.

I can't remember off hand when the monitors appeared in the first movie. I'll have to think about that.
 
DarkAngel said:
Yeah. A couple other things I was thinking about:

The Architect was talking about Neo's code being reincorporated, but Neo's human. I guess he was just talking about the coding of Neo's avatar?

And did the previous versions of The One look like Neo? When he was talking with the Architect, I wasn't sure if the images on the screens represented Neo's thoughts, past versions of The One, or both. Since the machines control the process in which they "grow" humans, they should be able to create two humans that look the same, right? Maybe?
I'm not sure, but I thought all those computer screens were the many predictions of the computer of what Neo's reactions would be. And sometimes things were easier to predict than others (Like denial, when all the Neos said "********!").
 
The Matrix Reloaded

Hi, I'm Matt. I'll be your resident contrarian this evening.

See, I LIKED it. Like, a LOT. Maybe not as much as the first film, but for entirely different reasons. Is it perfect? No. The mass dance orgy at the beginning was self-indulgent, and the product placement car chase was so long it grew tedious. Everything else I liked.

I imagine the biggest problem people had with it was the ending saying the prophecy was b.s.. People must have built it up into their minds that the franchise was an affirmation of religious belief and allegory, and when the movie says "Nope," that probably ruffled some feathers. Now they could potentially walk this back in the next movie. But considering people LOATHE the last movie, I'm gonna go out a limb and say they probably aren't going to and that's probably why people are pissed.

Speaking as someone who believes the Universe is not random and that there IS probably a higher purpose out there, Morpheus's various declarations of belief throughout the movie were entirely problematic, even for me. They were irrational and not based upon evidence. I understand why this spoke to a certain segment of the audience. For me, I thought Lock had a DAMN good point. I agree with the Councilor that this specific war's win or loss will not depend on losing three ships ahead of time. But there is no evidence that the prophecy is what it is being billed as. Considering their enemies' obsession with control and mind games, Morpheus and his followers would be crazy not to wonder if their beliefs weren't being used against them the entire time.

And the Oracle is an AI? I thought it was cool that Zion had a GOOD AI on its side, and I thought it said something cool about free will and the AI. But now I'm wondering. If the Oracle is the Mother of The Matrix, she must already know this crap, and deliberately lied to and misled the good guys. The Oracle is so warm and giving and understanding and empathetic. But given what the Architect tells Neo here, it's likelier than it isn't that she's a Black Hat and always was. I would love to be wrong because I love the character, and I love the concept of various AI's out there on the humans' side. But unlike Morpheus, I'm gonna save myself some grief and follow Occam's Razor there.

So basically the first movie dealt with the philosophy and metaphysics of belief. This movie deals with two other important topics regarding belief that I feel are a natural evolution from that.

The movie tackling the politics of belief is smart. Zion is a human society. And no human society everywhere agrees on everything. If every human left believed in The Prophecy, the Architect never would have had to create a second imperfect Matrix. It's human nature for a large segment of society to remain skeptical. On some issues that's a good thing, on some it can be a civilization's downfall. But the future posited by The Matrix Reloaded feels real to me because the humans are not all following Morpheus's line. And that makes Morpheus being wrong (so far) even more interesting. If and when they get back to Zion, and if they do before it's destroyed, Morpheus has some explaining to do and some crow to eat.

The second other important belief topic tackled is either the commitment of belief, or the fallibility and irrationality of belief. The next film will say for sure which it is.

The Architect spoke a David Lynch-style mystery riddle right off the bat, so I liked him. He told Neo his first question would seem the most pertinent but actually be the most irrelevant. And Neo can't stop himself from asking "Why am I here?" anyways. And after what the Architect tells him, I see his perspective that it's actually besides the point.

The biggest difference for me between this movie and the first is that in a LOT of ways, this movie is WAY more fun. The scenes with Neo fighting the army of Smiths on the rooftop wasn't tense or exciting exactly. It was bonkers and bananas. As was the fight with the French dude's forces. The stakes are a lot higher here because the human cast is much larger. But the movie is somehow more enjoyable.

I thought Persephone asking for a kiss was fun because she not only wanted to feel it, but I think she was partly doing it to cause spite for Neo with Trinity. She believed (and she might have been right) that in order for Neo to have all the pieces to fulfill his destiny, it's only fair if his personal relationships suffer for it. Now this movie didn't turn out like that. But it's interesting that was Persephone's demand, because I DO believe that's the reason she made it.

The other really interesting new character for me was the Keymaker. How is it this movie gets crapped on while having that specific character in it? I'll look around for reviews of the film after I post this one, but I will be shocked if critics really recognize what a great character he is and the reason why. They probably won't because it isn't quite made explicit. But as far as the protagonists go, he's the "Wild Card." One thing I could tell from his demeanor is that he struck me as a total coward. Even action he took was to try and avoid danger and seeming to save himself. What I like is that not only has Morpheus misread what was going on in the movie. So did I! He's not a coward. He knows he's about to die and is still helping the good guys even though he knows that will cause his death. And if he SEEMS frightened and cowed by that? So what?! That's actually a realistic real-world response to that! And unless The Keymaker has a ton of unsung Matrix fans (and I haven't seen any memes with him elsewhere) I'm guessing this film is underappreciated. It gave us that specific great scenario and people were STILL disappointed? Outrageous.

I am not going to get my hopes up TOO much for the conclusion however. Critics are not always right, but they tend to have a better batting average than the typical moviegoer.

What I am going to watch out for and beware of in the last despised film:

1. A downer, bleak ending. Totally possible. Also would explain why people were mad. I'm not gonna lie. That could potentially alienate me as well.

2. Stupid, unlikely plot turns and bad writing. This one concerns me because it's the only logical reason I would hate the next part, but it was written at the same time this was, so that seems very unlikely to me. And if I'm wrong about that, it would likely color my reaction negatively if and when I rewatch this film. I'm not crazy about that idea. At all.

3. A secular solution and moral. I would actually prefer this, but I'm betting it would piss almost every other Matrix fan off.

4. Budget constraints and cost-cutting measures. Perhaps the Wachowskis blew their wad and most of their budget on this film, and didn't have enough scratch left to do the final battle justice in the finale. This is a dark horse for what people may have hated about the last movie.

5. Unanswered questions or an unresolved ending. This would explain a lot too, but those aren't things I would personally penalize a project for.

So we'll see. Considering I thought the "disappointing" sequel was great, I'm having a hard time picturing getting from this neat film to the last being awful. So yeah. We'll see. ****1/2.
 

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