Editorial: The Current Lackluster State of Mecha Anime in the West (and Can it be Revived?)

[wonderfly]

From the front page of AnimeSuperhero.com:

"Editorial: The Current Lackluster State of Mecha Anime in the West (and Can it be Revived?)"​

"In 2000, Gundam Wing came to US shores and it was a smash, being Cartoon Network’s highest rated show. Yes, even beating fellow ratings darling Dragon Ball Z. Mecha’s time as a dominant genre of anime was relatively brief as returns on the genre diminished quickly, with a string of commercial flops occurring in the mid 2000s (Gundam Seed and IGPX were infamously removed from Toonami to be placed in a deathslot. Despite the commercial struggles of the genre, the hardcore anime fandom celebrated the releases of the late 2000s, including Code Geass (beloved by the core anime fandom despite Adult Swim placing it in the deathslot), Gundam 00 and Gurren Lagann . Flash forward from the 2000s to the present day, and the genre’s US popularity seems to be the weakest its ever been.

Any of you watch Brave Bang Bravern!? Probably not as Crunchyroll thought it wasn’t worth dubbing. The Gundam franchise seems to teeter-totter between a big deal franchise and a dying franchise, with the 2022-2023 series The Witch from Mercury seemingly reviving it and 2025’s GQuuuuuux killing the franchise again. Mecha’s freefall started in the 2010s, but the 2020s seems to be when the genre’s popularity went from freefalling to hitting the pavement and splatting. Aside from The Witch from Mercury, the last mecha to make a major impression in the US was 2018’s ever controversial Darling in the Franxx. Even then, the mechs are not what is usually discussed, as the sex appeal of the character Zero Two and the shipping are far more discussed aspects of that show than the mechs."

Read the full article here.

 

[Space Cadet]

Once they launch the Mobile Suit Gundam live-action movie, mecha's fortunes in the West will be turned around, lol.

Ok, I'm half-joking but that seems to be only real way to jolt it back into the zeitgeist outside of maybe a continuation of Gundam Wing.

 

[wonderfly]

maybe a continuation of Gundam Wing.

A continuation of Gundam Wing would be huge here in America. Probably not something Japan is interested in though.

I remember a time where Robotech/Macross was king in Anime circles (along with Ranma 1/2), especially in the early to mid 90's, but as the decade went on, I think Sailor Moon and Dragon Ball Z sucked the energy away, and then Pokemon and Digimon.

Gundam Wing was the triumph of Mecha Anime in 2000, but after "Giant Robot Week" in 2003, we were all pretty much over "mechas" (for some reason).

 

[PicardMan]

I know that the 1979 Gundam flopped because it was a 1979 anime aired in 2001, but that doesn't explain Gundam Seed flopping. It seems like Gundam's appeal to casuals was very brief, even if Gundam 00, Iron Blooded Orphans, and Witch from Mercury were beloved by hardcore anime fans. I would totally kill even for something like Darling in the Franxx, the last mecha to get major buzz from the anime fandom, even if it was all about Zero Two rather than the mechas.

 

[wonderfly]

I know that the 1979 Gundam flopped because it was a 1979 anime aired in 2001, but that doesn't explain Gundam Seed flopping. It seems like Gundam's appeal to casuals was very brief, even if Gundam 00, Iron Blooded Orphans, and Witch from Mercury were beloved by hardcore anime fans. I would totally kill even for something like Darling in the Franxx, the last mecha to get major buzz from the anime fandom, even if it was all about Zero Two rather than the mechas.

"Iron-Blooded Orphans" is beloved as it was in that sweet spot of "Neo-Toonami Golden Age", (2013 to 2018). That first year of Neo-Toonami (2012 to 2013) was kind of a "see if this is going to last" phase, but by the end of 2013 it was truly a new "Golden Age"....and then I consider the premiere of "My Hero Academia" on Toonami in 2018 as the start to a transition to a new time period (or 2019 when Demon Slayer and Dr. Stone were added to Toonami). It was no longer the "Golden Age" by 2018 or 2019.

The return of Gundam to Toonami (Iron-Blooded Orphans) was celebrated, if I recall right.

But yeah, nothing "mecha" has caught on since then.

 

[PicardMan]

But yeah, nothing "mecha" has caught on since then.

Well, Witch from Mercury did get buzz for having the first girl Gundam pilot and seemed significantly liked, but Gquuuuuux seemingly stopped the momentum gained from Witch from Mercury. Crunchyroll knew how to market Witch from Mercury, but Amazon Prime barely did anything with Gquuuuuux. There's also the Universal Central problem, as Americans are fine with alternate universe Gundams, but not anything to do with the Universal Century ones.

 

[wonderfly]

There's also the Universal Central problem, as Americans are fine with alternate universe Gundams, but not anything to do with the Universal Century ones.

Which is a shame, as I always preferred Universal Century, ever since watching "Gundam 0080" and "The 08th MS Team" on Toonami Midnight Run in the Fall of 2001 (after September 11th). Those 2 Gundam shows have always remained my favorites.

I can't escape the feeling that Mecha anime in America was hurt by the rights issue with Macross/Robotech. We loved the "Macross Plus" OAVs in the mid 90's, and wanted more of that, but.....I don't know, it's like I said. Along came Sailor Moon and Dragon Ball Z, and our focus shifted.

 

[Space Cadet]

Well, Witch from Mercury did get buzz for having the first girl Gundam pilot and seemed significantly liked, but Gquuuuuux seemingly stopped the momentum gained from Witch from Mercury. Crunchyroll knew how to market Witch from Mercury, but Amazon Prime barely did anything with Gquuuuuux.

I blame the hard to pronounce name as part of the issue. Witch From Mercury is easy to remember.

Which is a shame, as I always preferred Universal Century, ever since watching "Gundam 0080" and "The 08th MS Team" on Toonami Midnight Run in the Fall of 2001 (after September 11th). Those 2 Gundam shows have always remained my favorites.

I can't escape the feeling that Mecha anime in America was hurt by the rights issue with Macross/Robotech. We loved the "Macross Plus" OAVs in the mid 90's, and wanted more of that, but.....I don't know, it's like I said. Along came Sailor Moon and Dragon Ball Z, and our focus shifted.

My theory is that reason some iconic anime never really took off in America beyond anime fans is because they debuted too late to make a splash. Some of these shows are Lupin III, Doraemon, Crayon Shin-Chan and Saint Seiya. The original Gundam series would be part of this list. A big "What If?" is if Harmony Gold had brought over MSG instead of Macross. Even if they did the combining of series to meet the 65 episode syndication threshold, it would have been fine since MSG, Zeta Gundam and ZZ Gundam are part of the same continuity.

 

[wonderfly]

The original Gundam series would be part of this list. A big "What If?" is if Harmony Gold had brought over MSG instead of Macross. Even if they did the combining of series to meet the 65 episode syndication threshold, it would have been fine since MSG, Zeta Gundam and ZZ Gundam are part of the same continuity.

Robotech premiered on American TV in 1985. Zeta Gundam premiered in 1985 in Japan, and ZZ Gundam premiered in 1986 in Japan. Harmony Gold would've had to have held off a couple years to get the rights to all of those Gundam series.

I remember discovering Robotech in syndication in 1986 (and getting my parents to rent the early VHS tapes of Robotech in 1987 or 1988). I also remember reading some Robotech comics on the rack at the local supermarker (alongside Thundercats sticker books. It was the 80's). This was when I was around 10 years old, before I truly got into American comic book collecting around 1990 or 1991.

I loved American cartoons, but I could tell Robotech (and Voltron) was different and legendary.

The question always remains: Did Harmony Gold help or hurt the rise of Anime? I come down on the side of: I think they helped the rise of Anime (at a pivotal moment in the mid 80's), but they stagnated the spread of the Mecha genre.

 

[PicardMan]

Yeah, the 80s was when mecha titles like Voltron, Robotech, and Saber Rider and the Star Sheriffs were the dominant force in anime and Dragonball Z in the 90s was when battle shonen has solidified itself as the dominant genre American anime fans have consumed for the past quarter century plus. Still, Gundam Wing was huge post Dragonball Z, so it's not like battle shonen was responsible for killing mecha.

In April, we'll reach the 20th anniversary of Adult Swim airing Eureka 7. Hardcore anime fans dug Eureka 7, Code Geass, Gurren Lagann, and Gundam 00 in the late 2000s, but it feels like the 2020s doesn't have any equivalents to those aforementioned series, except maybe The Witch from Mercury.

 

[wonderfly]

Still, Gundam Wing was huge post Dragonball Z, so it's not like battle shonen was responsible for killing mecha.

I don't think it was "post-DBZ". DBZ was huge from 1998 to 2005 (though maybe it's height was 2000 to 2003). Arguably, every anime that was popular on Toonami in that 2000 to 2003 time range was just getting some of the love of sharing the stage with DBZ. Kinda like how arguably every anime on Neo-Toonami from 2014 to 2018 was basking in the warm light of Attack on Titan.

2000 to 2003 and 2014 to 2018 were just "lightning in a bottle" time periods for anime (in the U.S.).

In April, we'll reach the 20th anniversary of Adult Swim airing Eureka 7. Hardcore anime fans dug Eureka 7, Code Geass, Gurren Lagann, and Gundam 00 in the late 2000s, but it feels like the 2020s doesn't have any equivalents to those aforementioned series, except maybe The Witch from Mercury.

I consider the end of the "Anime Boom" to be around 2006/2007, so it's true that anything that managed to get on American TV between 2007 and 2012 is worth a shoutout (especially if it had mechas in it).

 

[Grenzer]

You have to keep in mind that mecha anime is in a slump over in Japan as well. How many new anime series have started every year in Japan this decade? The average must be at least 120 or so, possibly as high as 150. How many of those were in the mecha genre? I doubt it was more than three a year, and none of them were AAA titles beyond Witch from Mercury. The new generation of Japanese anime viewers seem to be indifferent to the super robot genre in general. I wish I had the time do a complex breakdown of the data, but my hunch is that isekai anime set in D&D-style fantasy worlds have sucked up most the market that used to be for giant robots.

Why is that? Tastes do change over time, and I would argue that even by the late 2000's the mecha genre was starting to play itself out. Gurren Lagann was like the final love letter to old school 70's super robot anime, and I cannot think of another show in that style in the past two decades that had breakout appeal. Code Geass was the last new military mecha anime franchise that was successful, but it eventually faded in relevance despite attempts to revive it. In my opinion Iron-Blooded Orphans was the last major Gundam series to find wide-spread success, but it was a deconstruction of a lot of classic tropes in that franchise and that could have been taken as a sign the property was reaching the end of its relevance.

It could just be cyclical though. In ten years we could be talking about a mecha Renaissance that started in the early 2030's as anime fans moved back to older tastes, sort of like the 1980's nostalgia boom we see in American pop culture. As always, time will tell.

 

[PicardMan]

I don't think it was "post-DBZ". DBZ was huge from 1998 to 2005 (though maybe it's height was 2000 to 2003).

I mean Post DBZ as in after it's debut on Toonami in 1998. The era of anime before 1998 being pre-DBZ (technically it aired in syndication starting in 1995 or so, but often in inconvenient timeslots. 5 AM Central in my market). Being next to DBZ definitely helped Wing and Gundam Seed probably struggled as it was the companion to GT, which didn't have the power of Z.

 

[Space Cadet]

Robotech premiered on American TV in 1985. Zeta Gundam premiered in 1985 in Japan, and ZZ Gundam premiered in 1986 in Japan. Harmony Gold would've had to have held off a couple years to get the rights to all of those Gundam series.

I remember discovering Robotech in syndication in 1986 (and getting my parents to rent the early VHS tapes of Robotech in 1987 or 1988). I also remember reading some Robotech comics on the rack at the local supermarker (alongside Thundercats sticker books. It was the 80's). This was when I was around 10 years old, before I truly got into American comic book collecting around 1990 or 1991.

Yes, in my scenario, Harmony Gold would have held off for another year or two before debuting Gundam, giving enough time for Zeta to air enough episodes. MSG had 43 episodes to Macross' 36, so Harmony Gold more episodes to play with(plus the 3 compilation movies). Of course, if this happened, most likely Gundam would have been in limbo hell since I'm sure Bandai and Sunrise would have battled Harmony Gold to take the rights back.

 

[Yojimbo]

Plus, the Pacific Rim franchise fizzled out in the west and that didn't help. Maybe the Iron-Blooded Orphans sequel will lift interest back up. Witch and Gyuuuuuux were fine AU stories but the endings weren't the most well received. The latter even had some 'star power' with creatives like Hideaki Anno and Yoji Enokido and still not really shooting off into the stratosphere.

But you know, there's still hope. Legendary's Godzilla and Minus Godzilla are doing better well for the kaiju brand. Mecha just needs that one spark or for fans to abandon Isekai, lol. You still see it is beloved like the big love letter in Dan Da Dan season 2. The Gridman Universe anime shows and movie were pretty awesome, too.

 

[Space Cadet]

Plus, the Pacific Rim franchise fizzled out in the west and that didn't help. Maybe the Iron-Blooded Orphans sequel will lift interest back up. Witch and Gyuuuuuux were fine AU stories but the endings weren't the most well received. The latter even had some 'star power' with creatives like Hideaki Anno and Yoji Enokido and still not really shooting off into the stratosphere.

But you know, there's still hope. Legendary's Godzilla and Minus Godzilla are doing better well for the kaiju brand. Mecha just needs that one spark or for fans to abandon Isekai, lol. You still see it is beloved like the big love letter in Dan Da Dan season 2. The Gridman Universe anime shows and movie were pretty awesome, too.

Yeah, I really enjoyed watching Pacific Rim in theaters when it came out but even then I remember it was still having a hard time at the box office. And then of course, the sequel wasn't as good, which hurt the franchise. Never watched the animated tv series, so not sure what the reception was.