"Arrow" Season Three Talkback (Spoilers)

[KYO'NYUU IMOUTO]

Aha, now Oliver's word is crashing down around him. Forcing Oliver to abandon the Arrow and splitting apart from the others who truly become their own force would be nice to see.

 

[GWOtaku]

Looks like they're taking Detective Lance somewhere interesting (and worrying). I've seen synopses for the next three episodes over at Futon Critic...we're in for a bumpy and interesting ride.

Anyone else feel like The A.T.O.M. suit has basically made Ray Palmer the NOT IRON MAN character? Still pretty cool though.

 

[Dudley]

Looks like they're taking Detective Lance somewhere interesting (and worrying). I've seen synopses for the next three episodes over at Futon Critic...we're in for a bumpy and interesting ride. Anyone else feel like The A.T.O.M. suit has basically made Ray Palmer the NOT IRON MAN character? Still pretty cool though.

Yeah, I'm not to happy about that. But I guess it's too much for them to make him have shrinky powers.

 

[Magmaster12]

So sick of this show being Batman.

 

[Dudley]

So sick of this show being Batman.

I just don't get it. We have Gotham that doesn't have Batman, and we have a Arrow that trying to be like Batman.

Why won't they just make a Batman show?

 

[GWOtaku]

For one thing, if this were Batman, the inner circle that makes up a huge part of this show and its drama flat out wouldn't be here. It would not be the same show at all. I appreciate that DC is accomplishing what it is on TV **WITHOUT** leaning on its biggest heavyweights.

Also, Oliver carries a different kind of burden compared to Batman. Batman was changed by crime he was powerless to prevent, Oliver was trained and morally compromised over five years and strives to hold onto who he was and who he is post season 1. There's more going on than the "dark" tone this shares with grittier Batman stuff.

 

[Frontier]

I can get the complaints about Arrow feeling and taking a lot of influences from Batman, to a point where it feels like more of a Batman show than an actual Green Arrow series. But in its defense, along with what GWOtaku has brought up, it's not like a more gritty or grounded Green Arrow is anything new. Mike Grell's The Longbow Hunters is a perfect example of this. It's just that Arrow has also taken a lot of design cues and a few elements from Batman for the show. Which isn't so surprising considering GW has always lifted a lot from Batman since his inception .

Flash is somewhat guilty of this as well, to a certain extent. As much as Flash is true to the feel and attitude of the Flash comics and characters, much like Arrow is the DCTVU equivalent to Batman, Flash is pretty much its Superman equivalent. I mean, just with the first season alone in Flash we've gotten, like, five Superman references .

But I think Arrow has enough points to its credit that differentiates it from Batman enough. GWOtaku tocuhed on how we have an entirely different supporting cast and dynamic with Oliver then we would have with Bruce, and that while both of them underwent traumatic experiences that changed them and set them on the path to becoming heroes, the ways it came about were different and the outcome as well to a certain extent. Bruce also never had to wrestle with the conflict of never having to kill or lose himself like Oliver has, because Batman doesn't kill .

I'm also happy that we're getting some great DC shows that really evoke the comics and the DC Universe, and has been so successful, without using some of the bigger names like the Trinity. I think that's awesome and proves DC isn't totally lagging behind Marvel when it comes to their live-action properties. I also read that there were a lot of kid fans at the Paleyfest panel for Flash, which made me really happy .

 

[The Penguin]

"The Offer" March 18, 2015

Keep your green on for a new Arrow! Tonight at 8 p.m. ET on The CW.

"The Offer"
Wednesday, March 18, 2015 @ 8 p.m. ET/7 CT on The CW
Still weighed down by his last meeting with Ra’s al Ghul, Oliver returns home to find a new villain and his crew have started terrorizing Starling City -- Michael Amar AKA Murmur.

 

[Dudley]

After Oliver's nonsense of wanting to save the soul of a guy who managed to destroy a part of the city, things are starting to look up. It did seem weird that Ras Al Ghoul just let Oliver and his friends go, so the twist that he now plans to ruin the Arrow's reputation is pretty darn clever.
I also like that Laurel and Nyssa are becoming friends. Maybe Laurel can then stop being lousy on the battlefield.

 

[Frontier]

What's an adaption of an iconic Ra's Al Ghul storyline without the Demon's Head himself offering the hero the chance to succeed him? Especially on the cusp of Oliver having so much conflict within himself as to who he truly is, be it Oliver Queen or the Arrow, and how much he can accomplish on his own in Starling. The opportunity to lead an organization that can effect global change, that he could even command to never kill again, and completely dedicate himself to his crusade like never before...I could see why that would be tempting, especially when he's been distant from most of the people closest to him since he's come back from the "dead" .

And we finally get confirmation of the Lazarus Pit and that Ra's has used it to extend his youth. It looks like Ra's feels his time is numbered as the Pit is starting to lose its effect on him, which is why he needs to find a worthy successor. Then comes Oliver Queen, a man dedicated to justice who stood defiant against him and managed to give him a better fight than anyone in centuries has which apparently is part of a prophecy related to who will succeed him. I guess maybe there was more to Oliver surviving his wounds and fall, unbelievable as it was, than plot armor ?

Poor Nyssa though, denied what she believes is her birthright, denied justice for Sara, and shunned by her own father who she's done nothing but try to please and has served loyally. Then again, Oliver's beaten her in all their fights so it's not like she has that over him...though I felt Ra's last line to her before she left may have been a challenge to get her to step up and try and take what she feels is rightfully hers back from Oliver. And now she's back in Starling to get her head in order and get more acquainted with Laurel, someone who holds a connection to her lost love and is going through similar familial difficulties, so it'll be interesting to see where that goes. Would be nice to see Laurel finally get the training she really, really needs .

It was tough watching Lance turn his back on the Arrow and go back to his old beliefs against Vigilante's, and Oliver's ensuing reaction. Especially considering how much trust has been built up between the two over the course of the series, and how greatly their relationship has changed and been improved since season one. I can understand why Lance would be angry, but it's sad to see him cut himself off from both Laurel and Arrow after everything they've been through and when they've only had his best interests at heart .

And of course having Lance reject him, plus the offer from Ra's, drives Oliver to try and revaluate why he's still doing this and what his crusade even means anymore. Especially with all the loved ones he's lost, people he's driven away, and how it doesn't seem like he's really changed anything in the city with crime already back up. The last element I presume Brick breaking out all those criminals had something to with. Not to mention that, being the type of Vigilante that he is, he can't receive thanks or appreciation like the Flash can and the police can turn on him at a moments notice.

I can understand why Oliver would be so lost now, and how he's never had to find a real reason for being the Arrow and fighting crime for himself rather than for the sake of his city. But thankfully Oliver realizes why he's really still fighting crime, not for gratitude or thanks, but because it's the right thing to do and he can protect the innocent and their families .

This also leads to a very much appreciated reconciliation between Ollie and Felicity, whose relationship has been strained ever since he came back, and Felicity reveals that seeing Oliver happy makes her happy...even despite the fact that she's now in a relationship with Ray Palmer. But she made the point well that it's Oliver's fault it got to that point, though at least they're back to being friends again .

Merlyn is still an insane Supervillain, and I can only imagine Oliver is still keeping him around because he has no idea what to do with him that doesn't involve killing .

We get another DC villain making his DCTVU debut in Murmur, who while lacking in depth makes up for it in a creepy look and being a very effective villain for the now-complete Team Arrow to square off against .

As for the island flashbacks, it was nice seeing Oliver and Akio bond and Oliver doing his best to keep him safe. I would say there wasn't much plot relevance aside from that, Maseo's gratitude towards what Oliver did for his family in the present notwithstanding, until we come upon someone who looks exactly like Shado !

Looks like Roy and Thea are finally back together, which seemed likely considering how much Roy has continued to do for her and how little there really was keeping them apart now .

So to ensure Oliver goes through with the offer, Ra's dresses up as the Arrow himself and kills Murmur's goons, to make it look like Arrow has gone back to being a killer again and to turn the city against him. This can't end well...

 

[The Penguin]

"Suicidal Tendencies" March 25, 2015

'Till death do us part! Tonight at 8 p.m. ET on The CW.

"Suicidal Tendencies"
Wednesday, March 25, 2015 @ 8 p.m. ET/7 CT on The CW
It's celebration time as Diggle and Lyla get married. However, Deadshot interrupts their honeymoon and tells them the Suicide Squad has been given a new mission

 

[The Penguin]

"Public Enemy" April 1, 2015

Allies fall! Tonight at 8 p.m. ET on The CW.

"Public Enemy"
Wednesday, April 1, 2015 @ 8 p.m. ET/7 CT on The CW
During an attack on the mayor's office, Ray is critically injured. Felicity is pleasantly surprised when her mother, Donna Smoak, shows up at the hospital to offer her support.

 

[Rick Jones]

It's pretty crazy to finally see such a full manhunt for Ollie. To think this could have all been avoided if he left Malcolm in the League's hands.

 

[Frontier]

It's pretty crazy to finally see such a full manhunt for Ollie. To think this could have all been avoided if he left Malcolm in the League's hands.

In hindsight, if Oliver had known all he did now about Merlyn's involvement with Sara's death and his own feelings and actions towards Thea, he probably would have and they'd have been much better off. Of course, without the benefit of that, I can understand why Oliver would have given him the benefit of the doubt at the time and let him go instead of just handing him over to Nyssa. It just unfortunately turned out that giving a Supervillain the benefit of the doubt was was a really bad move, even if at the time it seemed like the most respectable decision he could make .

Team Arrow vs. The League Assassins was pretty great, but it definitely wasn't as intense or as thrilling as seeing the team on the run from the police. I mean, it's not the first time the Anti-Vigilante Task Force have been after the Arrow or that Ollie's gone against the police, but I don't think it's ever felt as exciting or as conflicting. Especially now that there's the rest of Team Arrow to worry about and considering how much Arrow has been an ally of the SCPD up until now. To see Lance and the police turn on him and hunt him and his team so vigorously, for something Oliver hasn't even done, was tough to watch .

And I also felt bad for the dilemma placed on Team Arrow, as Roy demonstrated, of having to attack the police to keep themselves safe, rather than just fighting the bad guys. It's particularly disconcerting considering how much Team Arrow has become heroes for the city, and that Oliver never wanted to put his team in the position of being the "bad guys" and having to hurt innocent people just to protect themselves. That's not why they put on their masks. And now Roy's guilt over that, coupled with his loyalty to Oliver and still feeling like he needs to be punished for the officer he murdered, drives him to try and take the fall for Oliver. I hope ends up okay .

Of course, things getting this bad is in no small part due to Lance and his regression back to how he was in season one when he was still obsessed with catching The Vigilante. With Sara's death still obviously effecting him, and his trust in both Laurel and Oliver shattered over their keeping it from him, his feelings have devolved into complete hatred for The Arrow and what he represents. Even if a part of him can tell that Oliver is being framed, his emotions have clouded his judgement so much that it's made him completely believe that the cause of all the bad things that have happened in Starling, and the rise of costumed heroes and villains in the world, is a result of The Arrow and that getting rid of him will make things right .

Never mind all the people that would be dead by now if not for The Arrow, the criminals he's put away, and that there probably wouldn't even be a city right now if not for his being there. Lance's grudge against Oliver has let him play right into Ra's Al Ghul's hands, and he's completely oblivious to it as he zealously hunts for Oliver and refuses to see past his own anger and mistaken belief that Oliver is at fault for everything. I can only hope that Lance eventually realizes, though likely too late, how much of a mistake he's made, before he truly fails this city .

I was not expecting to see Oliver outed as The Arrow. It's going to be a lot harder to put that genie back in the bottle compared to when it happened in season one. I guess Roy's taking the fall at the end will give at least enough reasonable doubt to get Oliver released from police custody and leave people relatively confused as to who Arrow is, but that certainly doesn't solve anything. I think it would honestly be a bad move to just outright admit to it, so maybe this will drive Oliver to try and cultivate his public Oliver Queen persona again to downplay the idea that he could ever be The Arrow? Or do a Daredevil and just continue to deny it as he continues operating on the streets? Would be ironic if, considering how bad Barry is at keeping his Secret Identity, if Flash still has his Secret Identity going into season 2 while Arrow doesn't for season 4 .

At least the Ray subplot gave the episode some much needed levity, and saw the return of Feliciy's mom who proves to be as hilarious as always, and maybe those nanomachines hold the key to giving The Atom his iconic shrinking powers ?

Though all those allusions to Felcity's dad and how he would be arrested if he were there...could he possibly be involved with HIVE ?

While I'm still expecting comic canon to win out and that we'll see Green Arrow and Black Canary together again, just with Laurel instead of Sara, it'll be interesting to see where things go with Felicity and Oliver and especially in light of that preview. I kind a feel bad for Ray that he's been so upfront with her about his feelings and how much he cares about her, and yet she still seems to be pining for Oliver and can't even answer his love confession. She shouldn't be stringing him along like this, and just be completely upfront about who she really wants to be with .

As far as the flashbacks, Shado having a twin sister that Oliver just happens to run into was quite a bit random and contrived. That said, at least it gave Oliver a chance to deal with his feelings for Shado and Yao Fei, and re-emphasized the importance of the truth. And we got to see the Yamashiro's come back and kick butt, so it definitely wasn't a total loss .

 

[The Penguin]

"Broken Arrow" April 15, 2015

"You've got the wrong guy, Oliver Queen isn't the Arrow. I am." Tonight at 8 p.m. ET on The CW.

"Broken Arrow"
Wednesday, April 15, 2015 @ 8 p.m. ET/7 CT on The CW
When a meta-human named Jake Simmons, who kills people with blasts of energy and plasma, starts terrorizing Starling City, Oliver is forced to ask Ray for help.

 

[Frontier]

Wow, I was expecting that the big death for this episode would be Roy but the actual twist of the episode really took me by surprise. That was pretty smart of Team Arrow to have Roy take the fall as The Arrow, which cleared Oliver, and then have him fake his death to both kill off The Arrow in the public eye and stop the police from harassing Oliver and give Roy a way out of prison. I definitely did not see that coming, and it was a pretty awesome plan overall, and almost makes me wish the team had shoved it in Lance's face just to see his reaction .

The only downside to this is that the ending marks Colton Haynes' departure from the show as a regular, and I'm honestly going to really miss him and Roy. While I was excited when I first heard about Roy's casting in season one, I never expected that the show would actually make him such an enjoyable character, one with a very strong character arc lasting three seasons, and make me really care about his presence on the show. I also never thought they would ever go full-on sidekick with him, but come season 3 and we finally have him suited up as Arsenal in an awesome costume and fighting alongside the Arrow in some great action scenes. His presence on the show eventually just felt...right, especially after getting so invested in him as a character, and it'll feel weird not having him around. But at least he managed to find penance in his own way for what he did under Mirakuru, and save the mentor who never gave up on him at the same time. Goodbye Roy Harper/Colton Haynes, and thank you for being such a cool dude and a good character, and I hope we get to see you again soon .

It's also sad to see The Arrow lose his partner now, especially after everything they've gone through and how effective a team they've been this season, but I can at least be happy with the fact that Oliver and Roy are leaving on good terms and as true friends and partners. That's a really nice change of pace considering how bad or negative their relationship has been portrayed in the comics or other mediums. It's even better compared to some of the portrayals of Dick's leaving Batman. Just was really refreshing to see the two develop into such a good, fun, and positive relationship and leave it at that rather then see it come apart .

So with Roy on his own now, and presumed dead as The Arrow, I guess that gives him the opportunity to go around the world and do good solo as Arsenal. I wonder if Team Arrow was able to leave him his suit, or if the police confiscated it during the raid on the Arrowcave ?

Man, Lance is really starting to take things too far. Even when he probably has better things to do as Captain, and his superiors telling him to lay off, he still can't bring himself to stop hunting Oliver, trying to ruin his life, and blaming him for everything bad that's been happening. And trying to use Roy to turn his own sister against him? That's a low blow. And if Lance wasn't so obsessed with bringing The Arrow in, for crimes he didn't even commit, Roy would never have had to go through any of that in the first place...and he has the gall to blame Oliver !?

At least Oliver's secret identity is safe again with Roy's faked death, and he now has the opportunity to continue his crusade in possibly a new identity. And it also gives him the chance to become a hero again without all the baggage he had as The Arrow. Maybe Oliver will use this opportunity to finally, finally, take up his proper Superhero name as Green Arrow and claim he was inspired by The Arrow?

Just some really great action scenes in this episode, from Roy managing to take out all those thugs in prison, in handcuffs no less, to both of Atom's fights with Deathbolt with some good ol' fashioned fisticuffs .

It was nice seeing Ray get more spotlight as a hero in this episode, and get a team-up of sorts with Oliver, and compared to Atom's showing and team-up with Flash I found this one a bit more enjoyable. Maybe because we saw more of Ray learning the ropes of what it takes to be a hero, with some good advice from Oliver, and facing his first real challenge against a Supervillain. All culminating in his first real win as a hero as he manages to stop Deathbolt with some quick thinking. And with Bug-Eyed Bandit and now Deathbolt, it looks like Atom is slowly but surely growing his own Rogues Gallery. It's just too bad that things with Felicity aren't looking very good .

I got a good laugh at Oliver's musing as to whether Ray and Felicity are possibly related, and Atom wondering about all the abandoned warehouses in Starling .

Deathbolt proved to be a serviceable villain for the episode, played quite enjoyably by Doug Jones, and gave Atom (and Oliver to a certain extent) a good run for their money. Then comes the revelation, thanks to a nice cameo by Cisco, that Deathbolt wasn't in Central City when the Particle Accelerator went off. Which then leads to the question of how he became a Metahuman... could there be other ways for people to gain powers and become one, or could the effects of the Particle Accelerator be more widespread than STAR Labs previously thought !?

As for the flashbacks, I was honestly surprised to see that Waller wasn't actually behind things and that Shrieve is, officially taking up the role of Big Bad for the flashbacks. I was also surprised to see her leave off on relatively respectable terms with Oliver, and wishing to see him again. Guess she's not completely terrible as a human being (if still pretty bad). Looks like it's going to be up to Oliver and the Yamashiro's to stop Shrieve and his plans, though considering what we know now, it doesn't seem like it'll end well for anyone involved .

And poor Thea...first her boyfriend dies, before she even realized he was still alive and left her behind, and then Ra's comes in and kills her to give Oliver as part of his plan to force him to become the next Demon's Head after every other obstacle has been cleared. At least she gave him the best fight she could, futile as it was, though seeing her get run through by that blade was tough to see .

 

[The Penguin]

"The Fallen" April 22, 2015

"The Fallen"
Wednesday, April 22, 2015 @ 8 p.m. ET/7 CT on The CW
Ra's al Ghul finally makes Oliver an offer he can't refuse. The team joins on his journey to Nanda Parbat where a heartbroken Felicity decides to take matters into her own hands.

 

[Frontier]

It was tough watching Oliver's reaction to finding Thea like that, and then seeing her pull through only to end up on life support. Especially when he's usually never shown as that vulnerable emotionally, emphasizing just how important and vital his sister is to him and how he'll do anything for her...even sacrifice a piece of himself and a chance at happiness in the process. Heck, most of the grueling stuff Ollie's put himself through this season has been for Thea's sake rather than his own, from keeping Merlyn alive, fighting Ra's in the first place, and now agreeing to join the League. I can't say I can blame him considering the fact that Thea's the only family he has left and that his sister means the world to him. As a brother, I can completely understand that .

At least we finally have the Lazarus Pit named and seen its effects firsthand, even if they might not be as pronounced yet. It appears they basically work the same as in the comics in that they can heal wounds and bring back the dead, but often drive their users into a crazy rage once they come out of it. But aside from forgetting about Oliver, at least present-day Oliver, for a few moments, Thea seems relatively fine afterwards. Aside from, you know, losing her brother and getting stuck with her Supervillain father .

Though given all the apprehension to using the Pit, I wouldn't be shocked if we see some more side effects resurfacing later down the line .

So, I'm guessing from Ra's dialogue, that Ra's Al Ghul/ The Demon's Head is a title and name passed down from individual to individual but that each is able to prolong their life through the Lazarus Pit. Basically combining the Nolan version of Ra's Al Ghul with the comic version, which is kinda neat .

Man, Team Arrow doesn't tell Laurel anything, do they? And why is it that whenever Oliver goes on some quest that he might not come back from, he for some reason never bothers to tell Laurel? Is the show trying to imply that Oliver might secretly be still harboring deeper feelings for her, even if he might also love Felicity, and doesn't want to see her to avoid those feelings? Or are they downplaying Laurel and Oliver to play up Ollicity for as much as they can this season? I honestly can't tell at this point .

At least Ray realized where Felicity's true heart lay and bowed out as best he could. I think he and Felicity make a good couple, and kinda make more sense then OliverxFelicity (not to say that relationship doesn't make sense of course) but the heart wants what the heart wants...though I do feel bad for Ray .

So... the League of Assassins has a random priest lady that handles the Lazarus Pit resurrections? You think we would've seen her by now instead of the character just popping up here. I almost thought it was Nyssa for a second .

Felicity confronting Ra's was a powerful scene, particularly because it let us see that, beyond his manipulations and every effort he's done to ruin Oliver's life and force him to become his heir, Ra's isn't an unnecessarily cruel or evil person. Especially when compared to Merlyn or Slade. He honestly believes that what he's done is for Oliver's benefit, and has never taken a life out of spite or without honoring those he's killed. He even implores Felicity to give Oliver one last taste of pure happiness before he has to give it up to become the Heir to the Demon, something that was denied to him and his family. And he didn't even kill Maseo after his betrayal, which actually surprised me!

Though now I wonder if his original son and daughter were meant to be Sensei and Talia? And I'm also curious who Nyssa's mother is...

Another good scene was Diggle talking with and confronting Maseo, who in the past occupied a similar position and relationship with Oliver, about what he's done and whether Akio would be proud of what his father has become. Which was enough to get Maseo to help out our heroes and try and redeem himself .

And in a scene that's sure to please every Olicity fan, we finally have Felicity confess her love to Oliver and the two giving into their feelings for each other. Which, all in all, I found to be a very romantic, heartwarming, and well-done scene between the two. Sure, Felicity kinda ruined the afterglow by drugging Oliver, but everything before that was pretty sweet .

Boy is Team Arrow in dire straits now. Roy and Oliver are gone, which leaves Black Canary and Atom as the only costumed crimefighters left in Starling. Diggle's lost a brother again, in a very heartwarming scene of its own, and Felicity's emotionally distraught over losing the man she loves after they finally admitted their feelings to each other. Not to mention Merlyn's gotten away scott free form everything he's done, which doesn't sit well with me. And Oliver's now become Al-Sah Him, or Dark Arrow as that seems appropriate, and it looks like Ra's is going to be messing him up mentally in the future. Definitely going to be interesting to see how things proceed up to the final and what will happen to the cast, though something tells me it won't be happy .

 

[The Penguin]

"Al Sah-him" April 29, 2015

Tonight at 8 p.m. ET on The CW.

"Al Sah-him"
Wednesday, April 29, 2015 @ 8 p.m. ET/7 CT on The CW
Oliver goes through a rigorous transformation. The League of Assassins sets their sights on Nyssa, who is back in Starling City training Laurel.

 

[Dudley]

Oh no, the whole of Sterling City is in trouble. AGAIN.

The biochemical thing The League of Assassins plan to use on the city will be switched and used on them instead, which was Oliver's plan the whole time.
Calling it.