Anime Hot Topic #2: Influential Anime

[Zechs]

I'd have to go with MSG it started the whole mecha gerna. Without MSG you'd have on EVA or other great mecha series that came along.

 

[Czar Gato]

I agree with MSG. I don't think I have to say why, because all of my reasons have been mentioned by other people. I think we owe the existence- or at least most of the influence- of other great mecha franchises to MSG.

 

[Iridium]

In my opinion, there can be only one real answer to this question, and that is Tetsuwan Atom -- Astroboy. There are several reasons for this:

1. Athough Astroboy wasn't technically the first anime on Japanese TV, it was the one that firmly established anime's commercial viability on the small-screen. If Astroboy had flopped, it is doubtful that Tetsujin 28-go would have started 10 months later. Sure, eventually someone would have had some success with anime on television, but in what form and how much time later?

2. Going back to what Twage said, it established the visual style of anime. This can't be overemphasized. As stated, it gave the particular "look" to the characters that has become synonymous with anime over the years (although I had read that Tezuka had viewed Bambi not forty, but eighty times in order to get the look and motion down.) This also means methods of directing the animation that were previously only done in live-action films, such as attention to lighting and using close-ups to dramatic effect.

3. It also established the practice of faithfully adapting a manga into a television series. This had not been done before, and still forms the basis of the majority of televised anime today.

4. Plotwise, it was the first real view of the future that anime had to offer, which, as everyone knows, would become a favorite theme. I'm probably forgetting something, but had there ever been any piece of animation, American or otherwise (besides Duck Dodgers), specifically set in the future before this? Also, it was, for the time, violent and dealt with death. Anime plots could have very easily taken the Disney G-rated plot structure at this point, especially on television, but they did not, and this show was a major reason.

5. Finally, this is more of a personal opinion, but I also think that Tetsuwan Atom was largely the origin of genres in anime. This could more correctly go under the "Anime Family Tree" thread, but it could be that several genres could trace their way back to Astroboy eventually. I mean, what genre is Astroboy? There are shounen elements, there are the subgenre mecha elements, there are even mahou shoujo elements.

This is not taking away from the relevance of other works like Gundam, Uchuu Senkan Yamato, Mahoutsukai Sally, Ribon no Kishi, Attack No.1, Sazae-San, Science Ninja Team Gatchaman, Mazinger, and Tetsujin 28-go, but I suspect if you had asked the creators of these shows what one anime influenced them the most, you would hear "Tetsuwan Atom" more than any other.

 

[stanteau]

Key was an OVA,I meant TV animes.

And even if it ****ed over Bebop,it had an impact.Good or bad,it wa san impact.

As far as ripoffs,it shares many similiar traits with MSG much like how FLCL is a remake of Galaxy Express,but that doesn't mean it doesn't have it's own sections to call it's own and EVA's use of religious imagery,while horribly inaccurate,was still quite original.Devilamn and other Go animes had similiar imagery,but EVA used it to a more severe degree,especially in the movies.And yes,I do consider those animes yu mentioed (except Garasaki) EVA ripoffs.I'm not syaing it's a bad thing,but it's disgustingly obvious that they we're influenced heavily by EVA.Rah especially,watch ep. 18 of EVA than ep. 19 of Rah,they're so similiar it's ridiculous.

The problem with EVA and seasoned anime fans is that it's become such a fanboy cult title that older fans are sick of hearing about it and I understand completely,I'm sick of EVA as well,but I can't deny it's impact it had on the industry.

MSG started the mech series in the right direction,EVA just took it 1 step foward

 

[stanteau]

Also,Rei is not based on Key,there's a billion other quiet mysterious,sides,EVA was done being animated when Key started it's release.

And no offense but don't talk to me like some 1 year Toonami fanboy

 

[Zechs]

People lets get real here just about everything written or made is a rip off of something if you really thingk about. There is nothing new under the sun trust me I';m a writer as soon I stopped worrying about my stories looking like rip offs I stated to do better. Besides some peopel will try and find the smallest thing in a show and say hey it's a rip off of that show. In some cases their right others their wrong. Go figure.

 

[Sheamon]

As far as ripoffs,it shares many similiar traits with MSG much like how FLCL is a remake of Galaxy Express,but that doesn't mean it doesn't have it's own sections to call it's own and EVA's use of religious imagery,while horribly inaccurate,was still quite original.Devilamn and other Go animes had similiar imagery,but EVA used it to a more severe degree,especially in the movies.

You claimed it was original, then went and named other animes that had similar imagery. Hense, it is NOT ORIGINAL. Religious imagery is very popular to use. Eva did not invent it. Like practically everything in Eva, there was little originality to the religous symbolism. Thats one of the most common themes in entertainment.

And yes,I do consider those animes yu mentioed (except Garasaki) EVA ripoffs.I'm not syaing it's a bad thing,but it's disgustingly obvious that they we're influenced heavily by EVA.Rah especially,watch ep. 18 of EVA than ep. 19 of Rah,they're so similiar it's ridiculous.

And why is that? Can you offer any proof? Many things that those animes stole directly from Eva that were never featured before in an anime before Eva? Because if you can't, then you have no proof whatsoever that anything's an Eva ripoff.

And Rah ep 19 isn't as similar as you would claim it to be. Not that

Spoiler

killing a good friend

was invented by Eva in the first place, which you apparantly think it is.

The problem with EVA and seasoned anime fans is that it's become such a fanboy cult title that older fans are sick of hearing about it and I understand completely,I'm sick of EVA as well,but I can't deny it's impact it had on the industry.

MSG started the mech series in the right direction,EVA just took it 1 step foward

Except that doesn't make it close to the most influencial anime ever, which you claimed it to be.

Also,Rei is not based on Key,there's a billion other quiet mysterious,sides,EVA was done being animated when Key started it's release.

I never said that. Key simply came to mind first as one of many of that cliche type of character. I never said and I don't think Eva took anything from Key since they came out so close to each other. But Key predates Rei, just one example of how she is far from original or revolutionary.

And of course as an Eva fan you should know how behind schedule, over budget, etc... they were. While the finale of Key wasn't released until early 1997, half the series was released months before Eva even started airing. Eva was far from 'done' being animated as you claim.

And no offense but don't talk to me like some 1 year Toonami fanboy

On the contrary, I have to talk to you like you're an Eva fanboy, since you certainly come off as one Eva's a great anime. I found it very entertaining and consider it a top 10 anime. But to call it the most influencial is pure absurdity.

 

[Jade_GL]

Tons of anime use religious imagery, just look at BSSM. That was in the S season, which would have happened in about 1994-95, I believe, unless my dates are screwy,. I know the show began in 1992 and ended in 1997...

I mean, the Holy Grail, Pure Hearts, Messiah...

Just putting that out there to chew on.

It's too bad my favorite anime isn't influential, or the most influential. poor Utena..... (Utena being very much indebted to Rose of Versailles for a lot of it's look, etc.)

Oh, and I would say that anything recent should not even be considered. One of my measuring tools for influential is withstanding the test of time and being still amazing to look at, revolutionary, relevant, and doing things that have not been done before. I also consider if it affected the rest of the world as well. Ao Akira is great, but unfortunately, not a TV show.....

That really narrows it down for me.

 

[Mynd Hed]

Let's calm it down on the Eva issue a little bit, folks. It's an interesting debate and I'm glad you're getting into it-- it's these kind of passionate discussions that I'm trying to provoke with these questions-- but you need to keep the discussion firmly grounded on the topic, NOT on the other person.

 

[Zero Angel]

Brilliantly put...

thank you Mynd. i thought that was a well said comment on this discussion.

and i feel that i should say my bit in here about Eva as well before getting on topic.

Sheamon and i have had this conversation before, well perhaps not in the influential aspect of the show but other aspects of it. for the most part i agree with him. Eva doesnt have much in the way of influential material, hell, it has yet to reach the decade mark most influential anime has. somewhere down the line it may inspire or influence work of directors or animators but as of yet i have seen nothing besides the occassional parody of an episode or a theme from Eva. nothing else.

now for influential anime i have to go with Urasie Yatsuri (sp) or Alien Invader Lum. this series was the first from Rumiko Takehashi and spawned the countless other one guy several girl shows that we have seen. some moreso then others (look at Tenchi) and then others we see the risidual effect (Love Hina) but for the most part Lum was the first to introduce the concept of love quadralaterals in anime.

 

[Ssedrey]

ugh... which brings to mind the fact that while one series may be the influence of many others down the line, it doesn't make it the best of the genre. Sadly, I cannot deny that Urusei Yatsura was indeed the beginning of my favored style of romance/comedy stuff, but (and maybe I'm simply one of few) I did NOT like Lum in the slightest and would gladly have just about any other of the genre over it.

I have respect for how Lum influenced the industry and I have even more respect for Rumiko Takahashi, but the manga made my head hurt. It hurt very bad. I tried to keep going as long as I could, but eventually I just couldn't take it anymore and had to move the Lum graphic novel away from me as far as possible.

I guess the point being made here is, even though something is influential as hell, I don't exactly have to like it.

 

[Will Sturnick]

Originally posted by stanteau
And yes,I do consider those animes you mentioed (except Garasaki) EVA ripoffs. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but it's disgustingly obvious that they were influenced heavily by EVA.

Nadesico, an EVA ripoff? Those two shows have very little in common.

 

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

I don't know about "single," but I could name a few influential anime.

Mobile Suit Gundam
Princess Knight (Ribin no Kishi)
Tommorrow's Joe
Tetsuwan Atom
Gigantor
Neon Genesis Evangelion (Yeah, yeah, I know Sheamon is lurking around the corner somewhere to impale every single person who thinks Eva had some influence on the industry, but...too bad! I'm putting it in here anyway! )
Lupin III
Nausicaa (You wouldn't believe how many animators this movie inspired)
Heidi
Space Battleship Yamato
Wings of Honneamise
Sailor Moon
Cutey Honey
Touch

 

[Charred Knight]

Originally posted by neocrisis550
Nadesico, an EVA ripoff? Those two shows have very little in common.

Nadesico is an EVA ripoff exactly like how EVA ripoffs Golion.

Hell the only differance between EVA and Golion is that ADV didn't have Peter Cullen voice the opening.

In other words the only thing that EVA and Nadesico have in common is the fact they both have Giant Robots.

To call EVA more influential than Atom Boy, Testujin, MSG, Urusei Yatsura, and Cutey Honey is idiotic.

 

[Aragami_Frog]

Originally posted by KingKoopa
Airing on Adult Swim right now, it's definately Lupin III. Lupin was the inspiration for many characters, including the much loved Bebop cast. It has so many movies and TV specials it's hard to count. It's done plenty for anime.

Nah, one has to remember that Lupin the 3rd is based on the movie by Stuido Ghibli called "Castle Caligastro" (sp?). Miyuzaki (sp) who directed "Castle of Caligastro" also directs 3 episodes of Lupin III. The series Lupin III which is based on Miyuzaki's work is actually directed by several different directors. In some of the episodes the animation can get really bad in that the animation differs with each staff creating that episode.

THe most influental anime is Mighty Atom/Astro Boy. It was the first anime to become popular and it's the reason that other people started making anime and the reason that anime got overly popular in Japan in the first place.

 

[Aragami_Frog]

Actually the show to influence anime the most isn't anime, it's american cartoons. Namely Disney Cartoons of the 50's and 60's. The creator of Astro Boy went to Disney Studio's personally to try and get help in establishing a drawing style. Walt Disney was intriged and actually met with him a couple times. The creator of Astro Boy got the use of Big eye's from Bambie and other Disney Cartoon's of that time like Mickey Mouse. Back then American Cartoons were also in their infancy and to express feelings and emotions and make drawing easier the eyes were made huge. Over the years US cartoon's gradually shrank the eye size while in Japan many following anime series followed the use of big eye's like in Astro Boy. So I find it funny when people who hate anime complain "The eye's are to big" when it's actually not a original Japanese element but was copied from old Disney Cartoons. Also on this topic, not all anime characters have huge eye's, it's a huge misconception there is with people who don't like anime. They all think that ALL anime character's have big eyes when there's alot that don't.

 

[andrael]

Originally posted by Aragami_Frog
Nah, one has to remember that Lupin the 3rd is based on the movie by Stuido Ghibli called "Castle Caligastro" (sp?). Miyuzaki (sp) who directed "Castle of Caligastro" also directs 3 episodes of Lupin III. The series Lupin III which is based on Miyuzaki's work is actually directed by several different directors.

Um, not quite. Lupin III was based on a manga by Monkey Punch. The manga came first; then the first TV series; then the first movie, "Mystery of Mamo". "Castle of Cagliostro" was the second Lupin III movie to be made. So you couldn't really say that the series is based on Miyazaki's work, because it predates Miyazaki's work. Though obviously Miyazaki was an important part of the franchise.

 

[JohnCrichton]

Giant Robo.

The Big O is enjoying prosperity in the house Giant Robo made for it.

Unfortunatley it's in Manga Entertainment's hands, so most of you will never know the wonders I've seen.

 

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Originally posted by JohnCrichton
Giant Robo.

The Big O is enjoying prosperity in the house Giant Robo made for it.

Unfortunatley it's in Manga Entertainment's hands, so most of you will never know the wonders I've seen.

I love GR...but it didn't exactly inspire a revolution. Besides, both are inspired by Tetsujin. (Gigantor)

 

[pabcool]

Doraemon Is Rather Revolutionary, There Aren't Too Many Animes Like It. And Besides, If I'm Not Wrong, It's The World's Longest Running Cartoon, Well Over 1,000 Episodes And 10 Movies.

My List:

Doraemon.
Mobile Suit Gundam.
Lolita Anime. (Hey, Just Because It Was Revolutionary Doesn't Mean It Was A GOOD Thing)
Sailor Moon.
Neon Genesis Evangelion.
Astro Boy.
Akira.
Pokemon.
Record Of Lodoss War.
The 3 "Space Western" Anime. (Trigun, Outlaw Star And Cowboy Bebop)
Ursai Yatsura.
Lupin The Third.
My Neighbor Totoro.
Heidi.
Gigantor.

I'll Come Up With More Later.